White Powdery Infection..

[RetsamHsam]

Hi All,

I've recently had a white powdery substance crop up on top of beers in the fermenter after the primary ferment is complete. It doesn't seem to be contributing any off flavours but I would still like to know what it is.. I have attached a photo I found online of something which looks similar to what I have in my fermentors at home (I will take some photos when I get home however).

Any Ideas on what it might be???

P.S I am going to go to declare chemical warfare on my fermentors once they are all empty!!

 

[sinkas]

I think tis lactobacillus, from poor sanitation

 

[Tony]

I get this a lot.

If i leave the beer in primary it can sith there for months and be fine.

As soon as i rack it..... this grown on the top within a couple days.

I have stopped bottling becasue i cant stop it. Its hit ans miss..... some get it, some dont. It has started since i moved to my new house. Sometimes there is no real flavour change, sometimes it mutes the hops and malt, and sometimes it has a funny slick sweet taste and smells of nail pollish remover.

I now ferment, chill while still on primary yeast, rack cold and filter into the keg, and the beer is great.

I beliece its some sort of airborn wild yeast. Its the bain of my existance these days.

looks like this

 

[jbirbeck]

I get this a lot.

If i leave the beer in primary it can sith there for months and be fine.

As soon as i rack it..... this grown on the top within a couple days.

I have stopped bottling becasue i cant stop it. Its hit ans miss..... some get it, some dont. It has started since i moved to my new house. Sometimes there is no real flavour change, sometimes it mutes the hops and malt, and sometimes it has a funny slick sweet taste and smells of nail pollish remover.

I now ferment, chill while still on primary yeast, rack cold and filter into the keg, and the beer is great.

I beliece its some sort of airborn wild yeast. Its the bain of my existance these days.

looks like this

I get this too, exact same thing and same result after racking as well...sometimes even without racking. Have had another one as well that brings on wheat beer related phenols and cloudiness...without the layer.

When the layer kicks in I bottle straight away because it doesn't affect the flavour as much. Bottle everything under the layer and leave the scum. If the scum gets in the bottle the bottle will not be a good one.

Wild yeast is my thought. Haven't been able to completely knock it off despite WWIII...

 

[RetsamHsam]

I think tis lactobacillus, from poor sanitation

I don't know if this is the case. While I'm not overly pedantic about sanitation all of my fermenters get a soak in napisan/water which is followed up with starsan solution.

Most pics of Lacto that I have seen have more of a web like appearance like in the photo below. It is also meant to sour the beer, and I am not experiencing any major flavour shift.

I get this a lot.

If i leave the beer in primary it can sith there for months and be fine.

As soon as i rack it..... this grown on the top within a couple days.

I have stopped bottling becasue i cant stop it. Its hit ans miss..... some get it, some dont. It has started since i moved to my new house. Sometimes there is no real flavour change, sometimes it mutes the hops and malt, and sometimes it has a funny slick sweet taste and smells of nail pollish remover.

I now ferment, chill while still on primary yeast, rack cold and filter into the keg, and the beer is great.

I beliece its some sort of airborn wild yeast. Its the bain of my existance these days.

looks like this

That looks like it... Do you have any idea what it is??

3 out of the 4 beers I have had it in were definitely racked, I can't remember whether I racked the other one so I might look into replacing my racking hoses.. Or not racking.. and if that doesn't work are you saying I should move house :unsure:

 

[under]

Ive had the same white layer when I was doing a Wheat beer. Dunno what it was, samples tasted fine. I just racked and left the **** behind.

 

[RetsamHsam]

Ive had the same white layer when I was doing a Wheat beer. Dunno what it was, samples tasted fine. I just racked and left the **** behind.

In my search I found alot more people had similar issues to this when using wheat, but I haven't used wheat in any of these beers so I suspect it may be something different..

 

[Screwtop]

I don't know if this is the case. While I'm not overly pedantic about sanitation all of my fermenters get a soak in napisan/water which is followed up with starsan solution.

Most pics of Lacto that I have seen have more of a web like appearance like in the photo below. It is also meant to sour the beer, and I am not experiencing any major flavour shift.





That looks like it... Do you have any idea what it is??

3 out of the 4 beers I have had it in were definitely racked, I can't remember whether I racked the other one so I might look into replacing my racking hoses.. Or not racking.. and if that doesn't work are you saying I should move house :unsure:

That pic looks like Acetobacter to me. The pic in the original post looks simply like white mould (blessed are the cheese makers). Wont give much in the off flavour dept. Just a sanitation issue, keep the Co2 in your fermenter and drop temp. White mould loves moist conditions at around 12C. Drop the temp to 2C when fermentation ceases.

Screwy

 

[Mr.Moonshine]

Looks like an infection to me, either lacto or acetobacter. While it might not be affecting the flavour much now, leave it in there long enough and the flavour will go downhill fast. Also, if you've got an infection such as this in a plastic fermenter, you either need to employ serious sanitary techniques to get rid of it, or just turf the fermenter. I beleive it gets embedded in the plastic and can reinfect several brews down the track ( I lost a good batch of cream ale to a similar problem recently), so you may do well to turf the whole thing. Glass shouldn't be a problem though, I beleive alot of brewers who do sour beers use glass carboys because you can clean them so damn well with chemicals and not have an infection arising from the previous batch again.

Good luck and cheers,

Mr.Moonshine

 

[white.grant]

Acetobacter has the nail polish remover aroma in high level. This article is referring to wine, but I think the logic holds for beer


"Acetobacter is a bacteria that grows anywhere the wine is in contact with oxygen. It produces both acetic acid and ethyl acetate. Acetic acid has a vinegar aroma, and ethyl acetate can smell like fake fruit at low concentrations or nail polish remover at very high levels. To prevent high volatile acidity levels (caused by acetobacter), make sure all surfaces that the wine comes in contact with are sanitized. Also avoid barrels that have contained vinegar or wines with very high VA levels. Adding SO2 (sodium dioxide) to the wine will inhibit the growth of this bacteria. Also, because the bacteria needs oxygen to grow, avoid oxygen contact by keeping containers topped and sealed as much as possible."

http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/articl...ing-off-flavors

there a bit more beer info and a gross picture here http://homebrewer2005.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html

happy cleaning!

cheers

grant

 

[pmolou]

i'm no expert so i'll say it lokks like it could be lacto or acetobacteria
and it also looks like a 100% brett c beer i just brewed so possibly brett aswell??? if you don't mind funky/ sour beers you could age it and see if it turns good

 

[Tony]

No it doesnt sour like brett. It makes the beer cloudy and masks the flavours with what i described above as a strange sweet flavour but fake fruit is on the money. Its a nothing flavour thats neither pleasant or unpleasent...... it just shouldnt be there and it dominates.

I have had souring infections and you know it strait away. But this is drikable....... if you get it bottles within 12 hrs of the first signs of the white crap forming they are usually ok but leave it a day or 3 and its tip out fodder.

Oh this is a great thread....... i have been haunted with this for ages and some great info here.

I left my saison stout to sit....... and sit and sit in primary fermenter for 2 months to see if it would get the white film but it didnt. The saison i fermented before it sat for almost 8 weeks and was fine, and 3 days after racking........ white film :angry:

Next time a bottle a batch..... which will probably be an old ale early next year...... i will try purging the airspace with Co2.

cheers

Tony

 

[Luka]

In my search I found alot more people had similar issues to this when using wheat, but I haven't used wheat in any of these beers so I suspect it may be something different..

I recently brewed my first wheat beer, with actual wheat in it, not just a kit and I had this growth too. It did'nt smell funny or anything and I haven't noticed any off flavours in the beer. I know my secondary got a bit warmer than usual due to the recent heat in Adelaide and I dont have a ferment fridge, but I also usually add a small dex solution to my secondarys to create a C02 "shield" but for this brew I didnt do it. next time I definately will. But, could wheat be more prone to this type of bacterial infection (if that's what it is)?