White Labs WLP059 Melbourne Ale yeast to be released

[contrarian]

Just kegged my version of a 1917 xxx ale and carbed a bottle up using a carbonation cap. Very dry and clean for the amount of sugar in the grist and very easy drinking. I think this will make a great lawnmower beer for summer

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Brewed a second version of this brew. 1st time despite a 69c mash it finished low gravity 1.007 and ended up as 5.8%. I wanted the second version closer to 5% so I backed off the sugar and base malt a bit and made sure mash was at no lower than 69c.

Tooths 1917 White Horse Ale.
Anticipated OG = 1.048. Mine was 1.051
Anticipated FG = 1.008. Mine was 1.007
Anticipated EBC = 18. Mine is ~9 by my eye
Anticipated IBU = 42. Mine feels to me more like um 30? Did the age degradation on hop AA calcs and everything....
Anticipated ABV ~5.2%. Mine 5.8%.

.

So less sugar, a tad less malt. Ridiculous efficiency that rattles the brain of Beersmith it calculates at over 100%. (adding the sugar to the cubes rather than the boil seems to get this result)

Targets OG 1.047 at 88% BHE, result 1.050.
Target FG 1.009.
2nd time result! Gravity finished at 1.002!!! so now the target of ~5% ABV its a 6.3% ABV beer darn it!!! Bugger! Good beer though. Yeah its dry in the mouth but still manages to taste sweet at the same time.
I pitched onto the yeast cake this time I definitely wont do that again. Strictly good yeast count calculation necessary for this yeast.

 

[Korev]

Brewed a second version of this brew. 1st time despite a 69c mash it finished low gravity 1.007 and ended up as 5.8%. I wanted the second version closer to 5% so I backed off the sugar and base malt a bit and made sure mash was at no lower than 69c.


So less sugar, a tad less malt. Ridiculous efficiency that rattles the brain of Beersmith it calculates at over 100%. (adding the sugar to the cubes rather than the boil seems to get this result)

Targets OG 1.047 at 88% BHE, result 1.050.
Target FG 1.009.
2nd time result! Gravity finished at 1.002!!! so now the target of ~5% ABV its a 6.3% ABV beer darn it!!! Bugger! Good beer though. Yeah its dry in the mouth but still manages to taste sweet at the same time.
I pitched onto the yeast cake this time I definitely wont do that again. Strictly good yeast count calculation necessary for this yeast.

I did a quick calc using Promash (yes I know) based on a 23l batch outturn of 1.032 with no sugar adding 0.94kg of sugar post boil, assumed 18l, results in 1.052. My recipe was based on adding the sugar to the boil. So adding the sugar to the boil or reducing the amount of sugar post boil would seem to be the go.
Using Mr Maltys calculator might be handy http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

Cheers
P

 

[Bribie G]

Having uses sugar in a lot of brews, for example heritage UK ales and not just bronzed brews, I've often wondered about when sugar should be added.

In the case of UK usage, adding to the kettle - especially where direct fired kettles were used - would result in some caramelisation from "scorching" from the surface of the kettle.
However adding to the kettle results in the eventual trub being sweet trub, and in the case of a large brewery would involve chucking away large amounts of cane sugar in the long run and no doubt the brewery accountants would have a bit to say.

With Australian beers, including modern examples which use as much sugar as ever, is this added to the kettle or to the FV?

 

[Korev]

Having uses sugar in a lot of brews, for example heritage UK ales and not just bronzed brews, I've often wondered about when sugar should be added.

In the case of UK usage, adding to the kettle - especially where direct fired kettles were used - would result in some caramelisation from "scorching" from the surface of the kettle.
However adding to the kettle results in the eventual trub being sweet trub, and in the case of a large brewery would involve chucking away large amounts of cane sugar in the long run and no doubt the brewery accountants would have a bit to say.

With Australian beers, including modern examples which use as much sugar as ever, is this added to the kettle or to the FV?

Most of the large Australian breweries from the 1870s onwards were using steam coils in the kettle so sugar would not be so likely to burn. There are some accounts of liquidising sugar before addition to the kettle. By the 1950s liquid sugar was being supplied by CSR which may or may not have been partially or fully inverted. I have not come across any descriptions of sugar additions to the FV other than priming sugar prior to racking.

As an aside Houghton said that cane sugar in wort has to be first inverted by the yeast in the FV then the yeast can ferment. The upshot was that pitching rates should be increased to 4 lb/brl. for a 20 lb. beer. Brewing and Malting in Australasia 1906ish

As to the comment about sugar and wort being retained in the trub. Many UK records that I have detail the addition of hop sparge as part of the blend particularly where parti-gyling was used. This in conjunction with using a hop back would have recovered wort retained in the hops including sugary additions. Alternatively, hop sparge could be used to mash in the next brew so no extract would be lost.

Cheers
P

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Wow. Tasting that last screw up beer posted above after a day chilling and this is Cider Beer. In a good way. I think its even better than my first attempt only it is a screw up. Meant to be 5% turned out 6.3% of FG=1.002. Though it doesn't taste dry, its sweet! Whats with that I don't know.
Truly interesting character and potential of this yeast. I'll have to try this for Apple Cider too.
Wow the smell and taste reminds me of something, its like fruit punch in a way, kind of spirit cocktail I just cant describe it atm.

 

[pirateagenda]

Noticed yesterday on white labs site.... only 134 more orders needed before they'll ship another run.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Noticed yesterday on white labs site.... only 134 more orders needed before they'll ship another run.

Is there a list to add yourself to with that count? I have frozen some and also harvested to third gen now but nothing beats the yeast from the Lab.

 

[Bribie G]

I'll order some more.

Peter...skitch'em.....

 

[laxation]

Is there a list to add yourself to with that count? I have frozen some and also harvested to third gen now but nothing beats the yeast from the Lab.

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault
you do it here, but dunno if they ship to Aus. Might need to organise something through one of the brew shops?

 

[pirateagenda]

Is there a list to add yourself to with that count? I have frozen some and also harvested to third gen now but nothing beats the yeast from the Lab.

yep i just harvested up 500B cells worth of 3rd gen (starters only not full ferments) also.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

yep i just harvested up 500B cells worth of 3rd gen (starters only not full ferments) also.

I also think this yeast is a good recycler. From a 30% sugar Bronze Brew. To an all grain hop bombed all grain. Then back to a 30% Bronze Brew. All very clean with a unique flavor character in the background. Extremely hard to detect really because whatever your grist and hops they come through clean. A slight favourable tang is the most technical description I can give.

 

[technobabble66]

^^ similar for mine.
I've now done 2 sugar beers/bitters, 2 AG hoppy APAs and finishing up an AG stout, all on 059.
All seem to have come through with the malt & hops elements fairly prominent, maybe with a slight/subtle character from the yeast. I need to brew similar recipes against something like US05 for a proper comparison, but at face value seems kinda similar to how M42 finished a few beers earlier in the year.

And it's a beast. I had to drop the stout down to 15-16*C to calm it down after it blew through the glad wrap of the FV 4 times, the 4th while at 17*C. Chewed down from 1.070 to 1.016, the latter half was at 15-6*C, and was down to 1.020 within the first 4-5days, then has taken another several days to take off the last few points (at 21-22*C). However, obviously the low temps probably weren't helping the finish.

Very happy with this yeast. It happily chews through anything and everything. Great top cropper. Operates well ("cleanly") over a reasonable range of temperature.
Drops like a stone after fermentation, well at least 99% of it does.
Attenuates (mainly) fast.
The only downside is the last 4-5 points take as long as the rest of the attenuation (~4-6 days). However, I prefer to condition a bit in the FV after the main fermentation anyway so it's not really taking any longer overall; and I'd wonder if a slightly active final bit of fermentation during my "conditioning" phase might help the conditioning anyway.

 

[technobabble66]

NB: that stout was on 4th generation yeast cake, so I'd assume a massive pitch rate would have a lot to do with why it happily chewed through it at 16*C.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Chewed down from 1.070 to 1.016, the latter half was at 15-6*C, and was down to 1.020 within the first 4-5days, then has taken another several days to take off the last few points (at 21-22*C).
The only downside is the last 4-5 points take as long as the rest of the attenuation (~4-6 days). However, I prefer to condition a bit in the FV after the main fermentation anyway so it's not really taking any longer overall; and I'd wonder if a slightly active final bit of fermentation during my "conditioning" phase might help the conditioning anyway.

I've found it just like that. At (close to) correct pitch rate its like a low rev steady brew all the way through to the end. Rather than hit FG in 3-4 days it gets there in 7 but I leave it in primary for 10 days standard on any brew so its no disadvantage.
When I pitched onto a yeast cake being very over pitched it did exactly how you described. 3 days to ~80% attenuation then another 4 days to get the last 20%. But to be noted that's when I got a very low FG = 1.002. First time on the recipe I got 1.007 so It seems to appear that over pitching this yeast with sugars and maize will get higher attenuation. I've pitched AG's onto other yeast cakes before but the over pitch never seemed to change the attenuation %.

 

[Korev]

I've found it just like that. At (close to) correct pitch rate its like a low rev steady brew all the way through to the end. Rather than hit FG in 3-4 days it gets there in 7 but I leave it in primary for 10 days standard on any brew so its no disadvantage.
When I pitched onto a yeast cake being very over pitched it did exactly how you described. 3 days to ~80% attenuation then another 4 days to get the last 20%. But to be noted that's when I got a very low FG = 1.002. First time on the recipe I got 1.007 so It seems to appear that over pitching this yeast with sugars and maize will get higher attenuation. I've pitched AG's onto other yeast cakes before but the over pitch never seemed to change the attenuation %.

That is interesting, as Kaiserben contacted me and his beer using 059 attenuated to 1.003 from memory and he followed the recipe parameters. Perhaps being careful not to over pitch is one of the keys to using this yeast.
I am now on my 4th repitch and I am really happy with the results. They are currently working on a 1913 Coopers Sparkling

Cheers
P

 

[Mat B]

I brewed the 1917 Tooths Ale from the link on White Labs website on Sat. Smelled awesome when it was transferred to the fermenter. Pitched yeast on Monday and checked this morning to find the brew fridge is now sitting at 23C (it's set to 19.5C) and the beer is bubbling like mad. It's only a little unit and I suspect it's struggling with the hot Melbourne weather. Hopefully this yeast doesn't throw off any crazy flavours as a result.

 

[HoppyDays]

Should be no problems you can always throw some ice tubs In near fan to cool or cold wet towels to cool wort down .

HOPPY DAYS

 

[Mat B]

Should be no problems you can always throw some ice tubs In near fan to cool or cold wet towels to cool wort down .

HOPPY DAYS

Thanks mate, yeah I've been putting frozen bottles of water in to help keep the temp down.

 

[kaiserben]

That is interesting, as Kaiserben contacted me and his beer using 059 attenuated to 1.003 from memory and he followed the recipe parameters. Perhaps being careful not to over pitch is one of the keys to using this yeast.

For reference I pitched (roughly) 230bn cells.