Where To Find Figures On # Of Homebrewers In Australia?

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3. a small worrry that the govt will see this as an untapped tax revenue stream.

The govt. can't tax or impose an excise on something that is potential. They can only tax something that exists in the here and now and is measureable.

They can't tax yeast cos it's also used for baking.

Ditto with water. (Used for more purposes than brewing)

They can't tax grain cos it's used for baking and the confectionery industry to name two.

Only when the brew is finished have we got an entity that can be defined and measured.
Then it's too late.

In much the same way a brewing friend of mine started brewing at the age of 17. The supermarket had to sell him the ingredients as they did not constitute an "alcoholic beverage" at the point of sale. The potential did not equal the finished product. Otherwise they would have to ban minors from purchasing sugar and baker's yeast...a potential for an alcoholic beverage.

Cheers
 
Even if you are talking just oceanic pirates, it's still increasing. Piracy in Indonesia especially, but also in areas such as the Indian ocean.

Might explain the apparent stability of global temps since 2000...
 
The govt. can't tax or impose an excise on something that is potential. They can only tax something that exists in the here and now and is measureable.

Sure they can. They'd just have to call it a 'malt tax' or a 'sugar tax'. It would be couched in some protecting-the-fat-from-themselves mumbo jumbo of course...
 
I am a typical person. About 30% of all the people I know brew. That would make it approximately 6 million home brewers.
 
Yes James,
But the makers of maltesers would rightly object in that it would be a a tax on one part of the confectionery industry and not on another. A sugar tax imposed because of a small percentage of Aussies wanting a quality product and then affecting everybody from Macdonalds to Kellogg's would cause an uproar.

What I am saying is that the three major components that make a brew possible are all used widely in other industries.
Cheers
 
The govt. can't tax or impose an excise on something that is potential. They can only tax something that exists in the here and now and is measureable.

They can't tax yeast cos it's also used for baking.

Ditto with water. (Used for more purposes than brewing)

They can't tax grain cos it's used for baking and the confectionery industry to name two.

Only when the brew is finished have we got an entity that can be defined and measured.
Then it's too late.

In much the same way a brewing friend of mine started brewing at the age of 17. The supermarket had to sell him the ingredients as they did not constitute an "alcoholic beverage" at the point of sale. The potential did not equal the finished product. Otherwise they would have to ban minors from purchasing sugar and baker's yeast...a potential for an alcoholic beverage.

Cheers

How old are you?

No I'm serious...

I remember in England when you could just get on any motorbike at 17. To do that now would cost the best part of $6,000, a written assessment and a two year probation, stepping through 125 then 600cc then another test.
I remember in England when you could drive through London, then you had to pay a nominal charge for the privilege. Then the Mayor said we will NEVER increase this charge. Four months later he put the charge up 3000% (that's three thousand), and he stopped certain exemptions for residents. He's not the mayor any more, but that's not the point - the charge still stands.

Bide your time and watch your legislators carefully...
 
This is getting :icon_offtopic: but no matter!

Pretty easy to put a tax on Beer Kits/extract/fresh wort kits and anything classed as 'Brewer's Grain' if the pollies wanted to plug the gap in the excise laws I'd have thought. A confectionary company would simply have to apply for an exemption. But should we really discuss this and give people ideas? Canberra could be watching :ph34r:

Hopper.
 
It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a levy on retailers of HB supplies though.
 
But the makers of maltesers would rightly object in that it would be a a tax on one part of the confectionery industry and not on another. A sugar tax imposed because of a small percentage of Aussies wanting a quality product and then affecting everybody from Macdonalds to Kellogg's would cause an uproar.

Dont underestimate the hysterical power of the wowsers in the No Fun at All party...
 
In 2005 and prior to them entering the homebrew scene, Lion Nathan commissioned a survey of 20,000 household thoughout Australia which led to them calculating their were 350,000 home brewers in Australia.

They had a ton of other wonderful stats about supermarket vs speciality store shoppers, regular brewers vs casual brewer etc etc etc ... I just remember the presentation was held at The Lion offices in town a handful of the Sydney Brew shop owners were there ... was hardly a rivitting evening.
 
Dont underestimate the hysterical power of the wowsers in the No Fun at All party...

I'll try to steer this back on topic.

The worst that can happen is that we go back to the 60's/70's "HB is to have 1% ABV or under law." Can't remember the exact ABV.
When that law was renounced HB'ing bounced into the limelight. (As quoted in a previous post) Of course this will mean that HB'ers will be in the same corral as backyard marijuana growers. I don't see this happening.

The OP here looked at finding a method of ascertaining the number of HB'ers in Australia. Looking at the thread it seems that that would be a logistical problem.
Another side of the thread seems to reveal that we are happy to be who we are, and that if all this becomes too popular then we would encourage government attention.

This puts us between a rock and a hard place. Should we be encouraging others to HB?

I must admit that only two days ago I was contemplating contacting an "Age" journalist acquaintance with the idea of gettiing him to do an article on HB'ing in Australia.

The essential question(s) here is..."How many homebrewers are there in Australia?... and...Is the proposed "Epicure" article something we would want?"

Rock and a hard place, it seems.

Cheers
 
In 2005 and prior to them entering the homebrew scene, Lion Nathan commissioned a survey of 20,000 household thoughout Australia which led to them calculating their were 350,000 home brewers in Australia.

They had a ton of other wonderful stats about supermarket vs speciality store shoppers, regular brewers vs casual brewer etc etc etc ... I just remember the presentation was held at The Lion offices in town a handful of the Sydney Brew shop owners were there ... was hardly a rivitting evening.

I remember that, it was the launch for the "Malt Shovel Kits" the guy doing the spruiking lost me when he tried to coin the phrase "Personal Brewer", like that was ever going to fly.

Re the survey I am talking about, the 2% was for beer by volume, which had been fairly consistent since home brewing was legalised by Gough, apparently it was an election promise he made in some speech (see Shawn we remember).
The survey was mailed to Million households, there were just over 10,000 respondents, the survey showed that close to 50% of the home brew made in Australia was made in QLD, the number brewing diminished as you went south.
There were inducements to respond (prizes); this means that the numbers were skewed slightly toward the lower/middle income brackets. In fact 90% (from memory) of respondents were within the 1st standard deviation in the income curve.

I will try to dig out the report over the weekend, I saw it in a box a while ago just have to remember where.

This thread has piqued my interest, I contacted Bu Stats today, they had nothing available except a household expenditure survey, View attachment 28018 Home Brew doesn't rate a mention, so apparently we as a nation of house hold spend less a week on home brew than we do on bottled gas for BBQ's (10C/week), I don't think anyone - even a politician is going to see the home brewer as a cash cow, so guys put the paranoia away will you.



MHB
 
I don't think anyone - even a politician is going to see the home brewer as a cash cow, so guys put the paranoia away will you.

Good point MHB. I agree wholeheartedly.

50% of the home brew made in Australia was made in QLD, the number brewing diminished as you went south.

This seems to reflect a poll that is on this site. I was quite suprised to find that Qld and NSW members were far in the majority when compared to Vic, SA, Tas and WA.
It's an interesting statistic.
If this was, again, broken down to Kit, Extract and AG ...would the same statistics be mirrored?
Cheers
 
svturys - mate epicure have already done 2 articles on craftbrewing and touched on homebrewing.

MHB - i did say that i dont think the govt is smart enough to see the opportunity to tax it. they couldnt even get the alcopop tax right. Interesting stats from ABS.
 
Regarding this paranoid fear that Parliament might screw us over if it becomes too popular: There's no tax in it anyway, in the comparative scale of how our government gets its revenue. It would cost more to put it through parliament, then into the public eye via media campaigns, than the funds they would receive per annum.

They would need to consider the annual consumer spend relative to HB, then agree on a potential tax they would wallop on HB products, then comtemplate the effort required to float the legislation for consideration. Is it really worth that much to the government ? I dont think so.

And at worst, it means it can only be passed on hops. As mentioned earlier, they can't ban barley grains or yeast due to other industries need for base products. Probably not even liquid malt. It just means that the more dedicated kitters & extracters would step up to AG. That would cause a huge drop off in the number of Aussie HB'ers (of which population cannot be determined by this thread it seems!)

Hold onto your hats, I'm about to rip out some more calculations. And be very generous in my assumptions. Let's say as a hypothetical stab that there are 100,000 active home brewers, and 10,000 of them are doing AG (inflated? You tell me). Of the remaining 90,000, 25%, or a whopping 22,500 people are driven down the AG path due to the massive taxes. A further 25%, or 22,500 of people maintain their supermarket kit purchases and pay, lets say double the price of a prepared kit can (isnt present alcohol tax more like 60%, not including import excise? The Govt might use that as a model). All of a sudden for this group, buying a case of ready-made 'almost-as-good' beer seems an easier option for only a few bucks more, so let's say 1/2 of them drop off the HB statistics within a year. We're left with 11,250 kit people getting ripped off, 22,500 new AG'ers and 10,000 existing AG'ers, for whom nothing has changed. We're left with 43,750 home brewers from a 100,000 starting point.

So if they can only impose a huge tax on the 11,250 people buying kits (remember, they can't do much about the retail price of barley or yeast) and those people do one kit a month on average, and cans hike to $25 each, their spend for the fiscal year would be $300 each, or a national total retail spend of almost 3.4 million dollars. On the hypothetical 60% tax model, the goverment stands to make around two million dollars a year. I really don't think it's worth it to them to try and launch such a tax law for such a pithy return.

The only stranglehold they could truly impose is on our friend the Humulus lupus, and therefore force EVERY SINGLE HOME BREWER, regardless of method, to pay an exhorbitant retail price for hops. Doubtful that I'll be seeing this happen in my lifetime. They would need to declare the entire species a controlled substance, perhaps in the way tobacco is grown under licence & strict scrutiny, and legally administered by the ATO. All the wonderful imports would also have to pass through AQIS regulations, and probably be rejected as a threat to locally produced agriculture (ranches of POR as far as the eye can see!). One again, there's not enough impetus for the government to control it.

So in summary, I think our hobby is safe for a while longer.
 
Jeez. God forbid that home brewing becomes more popular, bringing in more $$ to your LHBS and more brewers with more ideas and more data. We all know how science thrives when it is kept underground and under funded.

How did you all find out about home brewing? Were you born with a hop-shaped tattoo on your forehead that lead you to the magical halls of Maltworts? Did you emerge from your mother's womb with a mash paddle in your hand? Christ have mercy.
 
This is one of the things I love about HB. Try and measure it!

How many brewers? Also Male and Female would be very interesting.
What Volumes, % of total beer consumption.
What methods, AG or K&K?
What Locations are they from.
What are the Socio / ecomic background break downs? This would be fascinating.
What purchasing patterns? As MHB mentions most Home brewers don't go to the LHBS.
What Aims to the Home Brewers have, Mega swill or finely crafted beer.
How long have they brewed?
What is the breakdown to local versus imported ingredients?
What is the market share of the K&K market between the Home Brew shops and the supermarkets.
What are the trends in all of these categories.

I think it is a fascinating thing and all of the above questions are the basis of any story about HB. That it is varied, techinical, and relatively unmeasured from what I can see.

That's cool for me.
 
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