Where Ahb People Are Coming From

[jgriffin]

I agree with the whole search first thing however, I did find when I first started out, I didn't even know what I was supposed to be searching for... Special names for things etc etc

[post="45734"][/post]​

That's why a "New to brewing? Post Here" forum is a good idea. You can fill it with sticky FAQ threads, and anyone answering questions knows what they are getting into.

Knowing enough to ask intelligent questions is the first step (thanks Jonathan Palmer!)

 

[Boots]

I know i shouldn't just keep feeding this, but why are people talking about splitting up brewers? That is not what's being said.

Don't personalise this... the talk is about categorising information into similar groups. It is NOT about splitting up brewers. Everyone knows that the more people involved in brewing the better it is for everyone, there will be more products released to market, more research, and better beer. Everyone wants new brewers to feel welcome. AGers know this and have always helped out those wanting it.

Under the new plan, all brewers will contribute to all sections there will not be a divide. There are no Greasers and Soc's.

I think that both this website, and the regulars who frequent it deserve a bit more credit than is being given.

I bet my next brew that Allgrain brewers will contribute a lot to the FAQ's for the newer brewers - as they have throughout the history of AHB.

rambling rant ends now

 

[jgriffin]

I'm not talking about splitting brewers up. Apart from this forum, i moderate on another very large forum, and have seen the progression on multiple forums from helpfull to mundane and boring. On Whirlpool for example, i must have got to around 8,000 posts before i started to get sick of answering questions. The same happend to most of the other usefull posters. The problem now, is that the people you really want to be get advice on, are no longer giving advice. It now often happens that really bad advice is given to people - blind leading the blind.

Now you shouldn't split people up at all, but if you have an area where the beginners can go, read some information, and ask questions without getting flamed, then in very short order (sometimes minutes) they suddenly know enough to ask intelligent questions. I've seen this approach used on other forums and it usually succesfull.

We've all been in situations where we are beginners (hell i didn't even know what sparging was 9 months ago, and still feel that i only know enough to try to ask the right questions) but if you don't foster some kind of "introduction" mechansism, then you will eventually end up with two distinct sets of users on the forum that will form the own cliques.

Note, i'm projecting well into the future, but i've seen it happen dozens of times. There's a rule on the internet about forums - the usefullness of any forum is inversely proportional to the number of users. That's because the "old hands" get annoyed and stop posting, and the forum gets swamped by new users, and lots of noise.
Once again, i'm not saying that AHB is like this at all, i just don't want it to end up that way.

 

[Linz]

I dont want to add anything to this debate.........





........but everyone else has posted here, so I wanted to too!





OH NO IT'S HAPPENING.......... I'VE STOPPED ANSWERING QUESTIONS!!!!! :wacko: :blink: h34r:




is this being "normal" or "normell"???

 

[jaytee]

How will you encourage K&K'ers to move on if you direct them to a K&K section ?

If you ask a K&K question and get a K&K answer, that's not giving the poster any encouragement to change what they're doing.

Answer a K&K question with steeping, part mash, liquid yeast, hops sort of talk and you're moving them along, raising the bar for them.

It's not a question of in which forum you answer the question, but how it's answered

 

[PostModern]

Answer a K&K question with steeping, part mash, liquid yeast, hops sort of talk and you're moving them along, raising the bar for them.

It's not a question of in which forum you answer the question, but how it's answered

[post="45771"][/post]​

I don't think so. Imagine this thread:

k+k I want to make an interesting beer out of a Cooper Lager kit. Should I use brewbooster 4 or 5? And what hops.
AG You want to get a couple of kilos of Joe White Pilsner malt, mash it a bit cool, say 63 because you want a thin beer. Which hops depends on what style you're shooting for. What is your yeast selection? North German Pils? Oktoberfest?
k+k I wanna brew this tonight.
AG No problem, the mash is only for an hour. Sparging is less than 40 mins for such a small grain bill. What's your mash efficiency like?
k+k My last beer was 5.2% alc.
AG Probably a problem with your mash tun manifold.

Can you see the rift?

Putting a "kit brewing and improvement" forum on AHB attracts the readership to the site without cluttering the existing forums. Asking how to improve kits in a forum where many people no longer brew them is not going to lead to useful information. I'm aware that there are many brewers who have made kits for a long time and have a wealth of experience. About one in three of my brews is a kit and extract or a kit part-mashed. I'd be happy to answer questions in a dedicated kit forum. I'd also ask a lot of questions in there.

I think a kit sub-forum is a positive thing, not a negative one. As Doc said, categorising makes using the forum easier. Batz's suggestion that AHB is about people who brew or are moving towards brewing partial mashes and AG is probably correct. There are other places run by kit sellers where you can get more useful and relevant information if you are happy to brew only kits.

 

[AndrewQLD]

I think a section for newbie questions is a good idea, especially if you can lock in some of the more common FAQs. I don't think that there are many of us here who can't say that they tend to scroll past the posts like, "my fermenter has stopped bubbling", or " Is dextrose better than sugar". These are all relevant questions for new brewers, but how many times should you have to answer them. A section with all of this posted and answered would be much easier and quicker for people to get the answers they want.

And I don't think of this as seperating K&Ks from AGers, there are seperate sections in this forum for recipes, equipement ect,ect.

I can only see this as being helpfull to people who want answers quickly.

Regards
Andrew

 

[Backlane Brewery]

And who can forget this series of questions?

Wonder how his crop is coming along...

 

[user 384]

Beer is in danger of becoming like wine and becoming an entity that is disparate from its essence.

And 1st year uni students who have learnt a few new concepts are in danger of writing meaningless twaddle, even if the words they've grouped together sound impressive.

How has wine become distinctly different from it's "essence"? And more crucial to the statement what the $%#@ is the essence of wine? Then following on from this premis what is the essence of beer?

Many would say that K+K is disparate from the essence of brewing as brewing is the process of making beer from malt and hops by steeping, boiling and fermentation.

See how my statement makes sense!

Cheers
MAH

 

[Ross]

If nothing else, everyone seems to be putting their 2c worth in on this one...

It seems to me that you're maybe coming at this from the wrong angle - Yes I agree, a FAQ section well laid out for the newbie would be great, but above this it's very hard for someone new, without a lot of searching, to find & read all the threads (or lack of) on a subject. Also these are quite often old threads, whereas new products & ideas may have superseeded them...

You currently have a section where you ask the newbie to ask his questions..... >

Brewing Questions/Advice?
New to brewing? Need some advice? Have a starter kit? Have you ruined your latest batch? This section if for you!

..... What you don't have is a section for advanced brewers only to post.

Far easier to put this in - where those that are tired of helping others with repetetive questions can browse this section only, if they so wish - rather than trying to stop newbies from posting threads, on what is, an open forum...

Forums grow & evolve with the people that use them... Anyone who has been a long term member of any specialised forum is bound to grow tired at times from repetetive questions, but by a forums very nature you won't stop this...

Funny thing is - in time - the advanced brewers section will go through the same evolution, as some of the longer serving members will again be looking for an escape from repetetive questions yet again....

 

[dane]

While I have been tempting in closing this thread a couple of times, it is good to see that most people are actually spending time in posting their thoughts. Many posts are long and indepth....I like it!

I'll keep this open so everyone can express their thoughts, however a forum reorganisation is going to happen whatever way you look at it.

Just remember it is happening so it makes it easier for the flow of information and from an organisational point of view....nothing else.

 

[sluggerdog]

To make it simple, I'd say that we need to split the category:
Brewing Questions/Advice

i.e.

Brewing Questions/Advice For the Kit Brewer
Brewing Questions/Advice For the Extract/Partial Brewer (maybe not this one.. merge with AG)
Brewing Questions/Advice For the All Grain Brewer

 

[normell]

Hi Guys
Me again, I agree with the idea of a FAQ section for newbies, as long as some experienced brewers are available for the hard to answer questions that are not covered in FAQ
We don't need new brewers answering other new brewers questions with wrong answers and therefor turning them of brewing
I have gone from K&K to K& extras and doing Masterbrews and Extrabrews, so I guess that I am now a Extract brewer or partial, I don't know :blink:
Time restrictions are the reason I am not planning on going FULL GRAIN at the moment, I work away thru the week and only have the weekend to do washing, housework, and a brew. But if and when I work from home base, then I might go down the AG path.
Normell
:huh:

 

[PostModern]

sluggerdog, I think that's a valid idea, but if we categorise every area into so many levels, the index would look like the Pub - too many choices > more thread administering to do for people who post in the wrong forum. In a way, the forum's format needs to be forum noob friendy too.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I agree with most of the suggestions made. And definately some basic topics on sanitation, fermentation temps etc stuck at the top so the newbie gets a sound intro.

The hardest thing would be getting the more experienced guys to help out the newer brewers.

Maybe we could get some experienced volunteers to put their hands up to help out more regularly

1) New/K+K brewers

2) Extract

3)PM and AG

The idea would be that the more experienced K & K'er can help answer those questions etc.

Just my thoughts.

C&B
TDA

 

[GMK]

I am happy to help the K+K and Extract

 

[deebee]

This forum is a well of information on every aspect of home brewing. The community it creates is priceless. F'rinstance, over the last couple of weeks I have had PMs from other members offering to lend me equipment, another referring me to an article on a beer I am planning to brew and another wanting to swap hop plants. Couldnt do it without AHB. *sniff*...

I love this forum very few wankers, just the odd meathead, a small number of clowns but 90% dedicated brewers happy to contribute to the community. Amongst them is a core of valuable members with high levels of expertise and even professional savvy. I am very grateful for this spirit of cooperation that has lifted my brewing above the basics. Lets not get too precious and cliquey about whos cool and whos not; its against the spirit of the forum.

An FAQ section is a great idea. I also support a section on brewing basics to help eliminate silly questions. I dont favour setting up different parts of the forum for different levels of brewing practices. More pigeonholes wont make the operation tidier. Just use your own discretion as to which threads you want to read and dont get cross with people asking the questions you were asking a few months or years ago.

Ideally all users who register should be directed to a clear account of home brewing explaining kit and extract brewing and maybe even a brief outline of the mash. This account should have links to appropriate threads on AHB and some other good basic texts and perhaps a strong recommendation that all brewers read How To Brew. It should also link to an FAQ page.

The FAQ page could be a work in progress for us over the next few months with members posting Qs & As and administrators trimming them back to the gooduns. Once complete it could be locked and available in a read-only format.

And finally, I love youse all.

Well, most of youse.

 

[Backlane Brewery]

great post deebee


i think it's time for another

GROUP HUG :beer: :beer:

 

[jaytee]

Great idea to add resources specifically for different types of brewing or fermenting

Now the question is how to progress those people in the basic section to the partmash/ag section - which is sort of where Batz started the topic off ?

 

[PostModern]

Not everyone wants to progress into the "elite" group.
Hence the need for a forum for people who are happy with the kit-makers' products.