Wheat Beer Ferment

[redbeard]

i put down a wheat beer about 2 weeks ago & used a re-cultured hoegaarden yeast as the starter. it was about 250ml and after a couple of days, a reasonable krausen appeared. i *thought* the original og was 1058 and today it was about 1043. i was using a recipe borrowed from seth, which he perloined from a reputable source the temp has been constant in the 16-20 range via fridge / tobins thermostat. (comparing the strip thermo against a cheap lcd one.

did i make too small a starter or should i leave wheat beeers ferment for -4+ weeks ....
hoe long to cc after the grav drops ?

 

[Kai]

Even with a small starter I would think that after that long it would have kicked off fairly well. Going that slow I would first suspect that your temp is too low. Why are you fermenting at 16-20C?

 

[Screwtop]

Does anyone know if Hoe use a secondary/conditioning yeast, or if the yeast in the bottle is the same strain as the ferment culture. This could be the problem, but really need to hear from someone who has done it previously.

 

[pharmaboy]

Does anyone know if Hoe use a secondary/conditioning yeast, or if the yeast in the bottle is the same strain as the ferment culture. This could be the problem, but really need to hear from someone who has done it previously.

[post="92612"][/post]​

I've done a cultured hoe yeast last summer and no problems, although figuring its belgian, i went for 23,24 degrees temp for the brew, although even with a big starter it took ages to get going - so did the starter.

I was using the yeast for a grand cru, so finished off quite sweet, still I'd consider getting it back up to 22 and give it a good swirl and bring back to life - if that fails you could always add a second yeast to finish.

 

[redbeard]

mmmm perhaps i misread the recipe - "Ferment at about 16 C with Whitelabs Wit II yeast. Too high and you will suffer severe phenolics and plum flavours."

perhaps re-cultured hoe needs to be 20'c+ ... will raise temp & see.

cheers

 

[Screwtop]

This Linkety also refers to Hoe being slow.

 

[redbeard]

thanks screwtop. i basically followed that except for the last part "use White Labs WLP400 or Wyeast 3944 yeast instead". perhaps it krausened the 1st / 2nd day & has been sleeping since. could only tell by unscrewing the lid & a quick peek. yesterday was quite warm in syd (30'c) but today is looking like 20'c, so might be waiting a bit longer .....

cheers

 

[Weizguy]

Redbeard,

I checked the Wyeast website and they recommend 16-24C ferment temp.
You may want to up your ferment temp.

My initial comment for low ferment temp was due to my WLP410 culture producing a lot of phenolics (which apparently fade with age).

Your yeast is closer to WLP400, and I have advice that it is quite OK in the recommended temp range.

In my experience, though, Wit yeasts take their time. Have U been monitoring the ferment progress all along, or just checked it recently? If it has stopped, you'll need to prob rouse the yeats and increase temp.

Best of luck. It's not ruined yet!

Seth

 

[redbeard]

In my experience, though, Wit yeasts take their time. Have U been monitoring the ferment progress all along, or just checked it recently? If it has stopped, you'll need to prob rouse the yeats and increase temp.

[post="92644"][/post]​

checked on day 2 to make sure the yeast starter had kicked in. since then, have been slack & only checked it last night. just now gave it a swirl, turned up the thermostat & left the fridge door open to warm up.

thanks

 

[Weizguy]

Just remembered one more thing re Wit yeasts...
U should use a large starter.
Maybe that's the issue you had, Redbeard.

Seth

 

[Snow]

That's an interesting statement, weizguy, and I know you make a lot of wheat beers. I get the impression that the current thinking is to slightly underpitch the wheat beer yeasts, as a slightly stressed state makes them produce a fuller range of phenol and ester flavours. I'm only just starting to experiment down this path, so can't really speak from experience.

Cheers - Snow

 

[colinw]

That's the thinking for weizen yeasts (WLP300, 351, 380, Wyeast 3068, 3638) but not for any other yeast that I know of.

And not drastic underpitching either, rather pitch at the low end of normal cell counts and cool, resulting in a longer lag time and slow build up to krausen.

I tried this in my last wheat - wyeast 3638 - and certainly got an impressive weizen but how much was due to the pitching procedure vs other factors (eg. decoction mash, ferulic acid rest for enhanced clove phenols) I couldn't say.

 

[Screwtop]

Have two wheats in ferm fridge at present one has just stoped 11 days. Had a krausen 60mm thick on day three (2L Starter of 3638) then just ticked over for a further 8 days, good attenuation (OG1042 FG1010) 76%.
A silly question but, how is your air seal, sometimes if the O ring or airlock bung are dry/little loose the gas produced escapes slowly without evidence in the airlock. I use the minimum water level possible in the airlock to ensure minimum pressure is required to bubble the airlock. If you look into the wort and see Co2 bubbles rising then the yeasties are still feeding.

 

[redbeard]

as a followup, i took the fermentor out of the fridge & let it sit in the warm sun. it got to about 24'c and dropped about 30 points ie around 1017 in a couple of days. then the weather clouded over and ambient temp cooled a bit. needless, i racked to a jerry & have put in the fridge for cc'ing. perhaps another day might have given a lower gravity. im still a bit undecided as to whether the hoegaarden re-culture was too small or if the temp was too low, for the slow start. any one else do the hoe re-culture recently ?

cheers

 

[tangent]

Snow - remember you wanted to know how my double yeast pitched wit went.
Summary - I panicked after the Belgian Wit yeast failed to kick off and after almost 24 hours pitched a K-97.
The smell from the fermenter almost burnt my nostrils, whew!
After the sulphury smells went and i got down to smells and flavours, I think it's turned out to be the banana, bubblegum, clovey monster I'd hoped for. Still very different than the straight K97 although the krausen was about 5 inches thick. I'm thinking my underpitch for 24 hours was maybe a good thing.
Hard to tell too much as it's pretty much an experiment and my 1st AG Wit.
Just put it in CC to clear up a bit over the weekend.

Redbeard - underpitch seems to = good like mentioned.
I'm going to CC mine for about 2 weeks, then gas and drink fresh. Just in time for swill festival.

 

[Hawko777]

Hi All,

I think you guy's have some valid points. I too, have made a number of Hoegaarden Replica's and have found the best way, is to prepare your liquid yeast around 5 to 7 days in advance. I use Wyeast 3944, as it is Belgian and seems pretty darn close in it's characteristics. I always make up around 2 cups worth of wort from dried malt extract and add to it through the week until I end up with a litre. I time it so I pitch at full krausen only, that way I'm assured quick reaction times and less chance of infection. Some of the temps you guys are talking about, I feel are a little too high and would only encourage uncharateristic flavours. I would stick to around 18 Deg C. I can usually expect to ferment a Belgian White for approx 10 - 12 days.
Have two kegs of Hoegaarden at present, all-grain of course.
I am a bit worried that Tangent is getting clove,banana and bubblegum flavours. Hoegaarden has a hint of citrus and coriander. Because equal parts of Ground Coriander seed and Dried Curacao Citrus Peel is added to the last 5 min of the boil. Although I'm sure it still tastes great Tangent. :chug:
What hops did you use cobber? I've heard the WhiteLabs Yeast is good but again you experience diff charateristic's. Happy Brewing :beerbang:
Hawko

 

[Aussie Claret]

hi Red Beard,
I made a yeast starter from the Hoegaarden Wit late last week and it took two days to kick off, I continued to feed it and got a good starter ready to pitch on Sunday night, 2l in total.
Fermentation started within a couple of hours, which I was very surprised at and last night when i got home from work the entire head space of the fermenter was full of Krausen, some spilling out of the air lock. I'm fermenting at 24-26c, possibly a little too high but tell that to the yeast.lol Yeh i know it might produce some slight unwanted flavours but time will tell.

I know the wheat beers produce alot of Krausen but this one has really gone off with a start.

Happy as a pig in S***.

Good luck.
AC

 

[tangent]

mine got up to 22C and those kinda flavours are what I'm looking for
they did seem to mellow a bit after secondary

 

[Snow]

Snow - remember you wanted to know how my double yeast pitched wit went.
Summary - I panicked after the Belgian Wit yeast failed to kick off and after almost 24 hours pitched a K-97.
The smell from the fermenter almost burnt my nostrils, whew!
After the sulphury smells went and i got down to smells and flavours, I think it's turned out to be the banana, bubblegum, clovey monster I'd hoped for. Still very different than the straight K97 although the krausen was about 5 inches thick. I'm thinking my underpitch for 24 hours was maybe a good thing.
Hard to tell too much as it's pretty much an experiment and my 1st AG Wit.
Just put it in CC to clear up a bit over the weekend.

Redbeard - underpitch seems to = good like mentioned.
I'm going to CC mine for about 2 weeks, then gas and drink fresh. Just in time for swill festival.

[post="94037"][/post]​

That is interesting, Tangent. Sounds like an amazing beer! I might try blending yeasts with my next wit...

- Snow