What Has Or What Is Stopping You From Going All Grain?

[proudscum]

Proudscum, when do you envisage your first run with the Braumeister? Tell me to mind my own business if you want but I'd be interested to know what the price was for the 20 litre model landed in Australia.

Within the next 3-4 weeks depending on the 3 jobs i am working/study/more house renovations/two pesty children etc etc.Also the mill arriving as i want to start with bulk grain.
Need to make 4 kegs as a wedding present which is no problem with space for 3 fermenters
under temp control.Cream Ale/Toasted Lager/Kolsch/Pale Ale.

 

[roddersf]

It all seemed a little complex and a bit daunting but i found the best thing to overcome these issues was the purchase of john palmers book "how to brew".

+1 also, what helped me over the line were a heap of useful YouTube vids; but besides this being seriously time poor was (and still is) another factor.

You thinking of starting a basic brew course proudscum? I reckon you'd get a lot of takers mate.

 

[proudscum]

+1 also, what helped me over the line were a heap of useful YouTube vids; but besides this being seriously time poor was (and still is) another factor.

You thinking of starting a basic brew course proudscum? I reckon you'd get a lot of takers mate.

See what the bean counters say @ Victoria University.....Maybe next year as there are not going to be many cookery students to teach.Will start with local fresh wort kits that way its easier for people to understand that great brews are only a yeast pitch away....if only it was that simple.

 

[Mutton Chops]

I quite agree that while its a terrific resource, Palmer is getting dated, just the same way Line for example and despite his foresight, is now dated and so on. But, seeing as it is electronic, perhaps it could be updated to reflect new developments in home brewing, that would be rather helpful.

It has been updated but in book form ($25 incl post from the States :icon_cheers: ), I'd wager the free version will stay the way it is.

I've been sure to do plenty of research before I pipe up on this forum and have still got lots to learn and experience but from what I know so far I can easily say that I will not being moving to AG until I'm retired or thereabouts. The 3 main factors are (and probably will be for some time...) time, family, & money. I'm not daunted by the science or the work (this is the most addictive hobby I've come across in my life!) but with extracts/partials you can effectively halve your time, double your output and still end up with a bloody nice brew at the end.

Cheers

 

[RdeVjun]

Thanks for the info Mutton Chops! Might suss out the libraries, chances are though they will still have the old editions. In the mean time, could you tell us if there's now a BIAB section or reference, I guess while we're at it, No- Chill?
TBH, I can't see myself forking out just for that though, but I'd still recommend it for a novice who's also a bookworm. :icon_cheers:

 

[petesbrew]

Before my first AG it was a case of too much time, gear and effort required for AG compared to opening a tin.
However joining a brew club (Hills Brewers Guild) gave me the taste of brilliant beers.
A brewday at Doc's blew me away, but it still took me a year to try my first partial.

Basically it's me just dragging my feet. Time, space & family requirements is always a big issue.
Still knowing that, I've started doing double brewdays. As the gear's already set up, it only takes another couple of hours for the 2nd boil & cleanup.

But, I still have some kits aside ready for emergencies or experiments.

 

[felten]

Thanks for the info Mutton Chops! Might suss out the libraries, chances are though they will still have the old editions. In the mean time, could you tell us if there's now a BIAB section or reference, I guess while we're at it, No- Chill?
TBH, I can't see myself forking out just for that though, but I'd still recommend it for a novice who's also a bookworm. :icon_cheers:

They did a brewstrong ep on BIAB recently, it wasn't too informative though. I don't think they're too interested in nochill or biab somehow.

 

[jbirbeck]

the thing that stops me from going AG is I like to use some non-grain adjuncts on occasion :icon_cheers:

seriously - nothing held me back but this site. Now a source of great pleasure for me, was once a hot bed of confusing discussions on the details of the mash when all full mash beers are is mixing hot water and grain. Do it any way you want and you'll make beer.

 

[argon]

They did a brewstrong ep on BIAB recently, it wasn't too informative though. I don't think they're too interested in nochill or biab somehow.

Yeah i listened to that... was a pretty poor effort. Jamil pretty much spoked to a couple of guys in Melbourne. Wasn't the clearest explanation of BIAB. The whole show seemed fairly disinterested in the process. Jamil said he hadn't done a BIAB, Palmer said he gave it a go... but didn't really elaborate. I don't even think Jamil has even seen it done.

 

[argon]

The thing that held me back from AG was 1 thing not knowing it even existed before joining AHB and reading How to Brew.

Ive had friends tell me theyre interested in using grain and asking their LHBS about grains and being told its a waste of time and takes 8hours and the beer tastes the same as a kit. I really need to get them round to my place and do a stovetop with them in the room. Itll be enlightening if I show them a 3V batch sparge, with water additions, vorlaufing, kettle finnings, whirpooling, NC cubing etc theyll think bugger this!... too hard

Equipment and money being a factor in not going AG Thats crap. You can easy do an AG with a 19L BigW pot and some voile. Whats that set you back $30 2 or 3 cans of goo or half a carton of decent beer from the bottlo The voile doesnt even need to be sewed just do it as a sheet. Hell, I did my first all grain in a $5 grain bag from CBs and a $12 BigW pot. If you have a kitchen and potable water supply to your residency you can go all grain. If you can cook food you can make awesome beer, better than 90% of the stuff available at bottlos and pubs.

Time is another one stove top takes about 3 hours last time I did one. And its not like going for a run for 3 hours either 80% of the time youre not even doing anything.

So you get home from work make some dinner while doing that bring some water up to 70C hot water from the tap and 20-30 mins on the stove. Eat the dinner you just made for yourself. Temps about right by now Add the grain to the pot sit down and watch an hour of TV. Walk back to the kitchen, take the grain out and dump it. Crank the stove up go watch another 15-20mins or so of TV pots now boiling tweak it back a bit so it doesnt mess everywhere measure out and add some hops half hour more of TV measure out and add some more hops 15mins more TV measure out and add some more hops 15mins TV. Turn the stove off pick up the pot and put it in the sink with some cold water 15mins more TV change the water 15mins more TV change the water should be about cool by now pour the lot into the fermenter throw some yeast at it put some clingwrap on the fermenter put it in a reasonably cool spot/ferm fridge/whatever. Forget about it. How is that too hard, sure its not as easy as sitting on your arse doing nothing. Or using a can opener and bag of sugarBut your evening has just been spent making beer and relaxing in front of the TV and you dont have to wince every time you take a sip of your K&K beer.

Oh and doing a partial and saying you dont have time to do AG well then youre not actually doing a partial then. Partials and AG = same time. Mashing is mashing it takes the same time if its all your grain or only part of the grain.

 

[StewTurner]

I just did my first AG on the weekend (BIAB in an esky). I got 2 home brew starter kits for Christmas, did a Coopers lager as my first brew (loved it at the time), then an extract version of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale as my second after discovering AHB. I have done maybe 8 or 10 extract brews since. Some have been great, others less so.

NickJD's two seminal threads really made it inevitible that I would make the switch to AG. If I had not discovered those, I might not have bothered. Making a manifold is beyond me, and I don't have room for a keggle and Mongolian burner. Realising that I could do AG on the stove top, with hardly any additional equipment was the clincher.

And Argon is right, if you are brewing on the stove top, brew day hardly takes any time (in the sense that you can do other stuff at the same time).

Now I just have to wait for the results.

 

[matr]

Oh and doing a partial and saying you don't have time to do AG well then you're not actually doing a partial then. Partials and AG = same time. Mashing is mashing it takes the same time if it's all your grain or only part of the grain.

This is where the penny dropped with me. Doing partials and thinking.. Shit I could be doing a full batch if I had the gear coz it takes the same amount of time (probably less as your not worrying about warming cans of liquid malt or trying to disolve DME).

That's why the BIAB gear is getting put together now.

 

[StewTurner]

I forgot to add one of the main reasons I went to AG. I was finding that my extract beers were finishing pretty high. I was typically finding that 2 cans of Coopers liquid extract (light and wheat) plus 250 grams of crystal, using US-05 was finishing around 1.016. I would like to brew some beers that finish a little lower than that, and mashing my own grain should give me control over (or at least the ability to influence) the malt profile.

 

[hazard]

I asked the LHBS about "doing this mashing thing" a few years ago and was told that it is so difficult to do at home that I shouldn't bother. I thought that it was just something that breweries did. So I didn't. Had been steeping grains and boiling hops for years. Then I stumbled upon this place. Lots of budgeting and 6 months reading and here we are (still need to read more). I still do a toucan or minimash from time to time. Haven't found the elitist mob yet, (a few dicks maybe, but hey, it's the internet) only very helpful and passionate people.
John

Yep I've been to that store, it exists in a few places - you know, the ones that sell kits and malt extract. I got into home brew because I happened to walk into one next door to JB Hi Fi after a shoppiong expedition, and spent 6 months doing kits. Had no idea that all-grain existed until i found this site.

So I blame:
- home brew stores that are interested in making a buck selling cans, and don't want customers to move onwards and upwards becasue they wont be their customers any more.
- lack of knowledge in the general population - there are plenty of kit stores around, more so than stores catering to AG market, so I'm guessing that many amateur brewers aren't getting the right info.
- mediocrity in local population - if you are happy with VB then why would you bother trying to make something better?

 

[wakkatoo]

time essentially. Got re-bitten by the bug towards the end of '06 when I bought a keg system. I had tried and failed miserably in '05 at kits and bottling (oh to know then what I know now!), kept the gear and saved the coin for the keg system. Moved interstate and was fairly mobile so progressed slowly to partials. Brewed my last partial in mid december '08 and made the switch to 3v AG in 09. Really only brew for myself and I'm not a huge drinker so consumption is slowish. A few mates and relatives are starting to show an interest so I'll be brewing my first 'contract' brew shortly for the old man. Payment is in equal literage of the nice cab sav he makes :icon_cheers:

This is my first full calender year of brewing AG brews so it will be interesting to see how many I do (at work so can't access beersmith)

As for the LHBS? Well, they are nice people and friendly to talk to. Lets leave it at that.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

This is where the penny dropped with me. Doing partials and thinking.. Shit I could be doing a full batch if I had the gear coz it takes the same amount of time (probably less as your not worrying about warming cans of liquid malt or trying to disolve DME).

That's why the BIAB gear is getting put together now.

I've given a ton of advice, especially over the last 2 weeks (in a very kind manner, mind you) saying "if you are soaking grains and adding them to your brew, you have most of the technique there. Then I get met with lame answers like "I'm too scared to make a recipe" or "I don't know which recipe to do and the hopping thing scares me". Even had the same thing when I told someone "you are basically extract brewing, but with a tin of already hopped go, why not give extract brewing a go and choose your own hopping schedule", it'll take minimally extra time. And still had them go "maybe later". I felt like saying "look, I got three kids under 6 - I can make the time every few weeks or so and they don't suffer at all, how can you say you have 'no time'".

This forum is fantastic and full of knowledgeable people, willing to share - but some people are just plain lazy. You hold their hand through the entire process and they still find an excuse to say it's too hard.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant (which it does on re-read), but fantastic guides like Nick_JD's are there, provided for free, and at the expense of his time. Tons of helpful persons donate their time and expertise for free on this forum alone (although there is a minority of AG nazi's, most are lovely people). You got a question, someone will have an answer (or several). And yet some people will still put it in the too hard basket and will stay where they are.

So maybe another "what has stopped..." answer is "some people are just plain lazy". :blink:

Goomba

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I was probably overwhelmed by some of the guides for AG brewing and was trying to get my head around water adjustments and other advanced topics before understanding what was going on in the brewing process

Also the prospect of chilling was mentally a big hurdle for me

I went back to K+K and along my merry way

When I revisited AG using a cube had become the rage and convinced me to step up to AG

SAH invited me around for a brewday and along with some most excellent beers expedited my foray in AG by probably 3 months

I reckon actually seeing the process of AG on a basic system is a great catalyst for getting into AG

Making decent beer via AG isn't particularly difficult, as I tell people who ask me how I make beer;

What you do is see, crush some grain, stick it in hot water for an hour, drain the now sweet water out, and boil the resulting liquid for an hour adding hops for flavour during the boil.

The ways in which you achieve the above are numerous and can vary fantastically in complexity

Both BIAB and a cube have made AG accessible to far more people and are probably responsible for a significant number turning to the dark side

Cheers

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Have yet to even bother with water adjustment. Our water in brisbane is on the hardish side, and that suits the styles of beers I prefer to make.

That's not to say I didn't research it though

But yes, the process is simple, and the variations are many - it is where you need to do the reading so as to go "okay, I want this to happen, this is where I have to change it."

But stick to the basics, and you'll always end up with a drinkable beer.

Goomba

 

[Mutton Chops]

Thanks for the info Mutton Chops! Might suss out the libraries, chances are though they will still have the old editions. In the mean time, could you tell us if there's now a BIAB section or reference, I guess while we're at it, No- Chill?
TBH, I can't see myself forking out just for that though, but I'd still recommend it for a novice who's also a bookworm. :icon_cheers:

A novice I am and this book is a great read but no mention of the BIAB or No-Chill methods you're after (that I can see), maybe next edition...

Oh and doing a partial and saying you don't have time to do AG well then you're not actually doing a partial then. Partials and AG = same time. Mashing is mashing it takes the same time if it's all your grain or only part of the grain.

Good point and mark me down for a rookie mistake in my earlier post, I should have just said extracts but that aside I'm very happy with the results I've been getting and my original excuses still stand (though you blokes certainly make it hard to justify any of them )

 

[fcmcg]

+1 I have to westgate brewers were exactly the opposite of the alleged "elitists". Happy to share info and discuss stuff even if they do things differently.
I haven't met sneery brewers yet, n hope I don't.

Mate ,
Westgate were very happy to have everyone at our brew open day... We even signed up some new members...and whilst we may have a club whipping boy ( he knows who he is lol ) all westgaters are IMHO good people and good brewers ( well mostly ! )
We will have another brew open day in the future ...once we get past our swap meet and Xmas etc...anyway , thanks for coming and thanks for the positive comments !
Cheers
Ferg
Secretary
Westgate