What Has Or What Is Stopping You From Going All Grain?

[Nick JD]

The fact that pp completely retracted his statement, said he misinterpreted everything, and nick accept his apology, makes nicks point there kind of moot. Not to say I haven't seen some elitism before, but its never something I've looked at and taken seriously, some people are just douche bags.

You're a complete arsehat, Felten.

 

[Nick JD]

Actually, no - I was wrong. You are a distinguished gentleman who has done no wrong.

EDIT - heh heh heh. I said arsehat.

 

[felten]

Probably, but then that's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

The fact that pp completely retracted his statement, said he misinterpreted everything, and nick accept his apology, makes nicks point there kind of moot. Not to say I haven't seen some elitism before, but its never something I've looked at and taken seriously, some people are just douche bags.

+1.

I learned to ignore said douche bags. They did make me almost quit AHB though.

Goomba

 

[Bribie G]

It all seemed a little complex and a bit daunting but i found the best thing to overcome these issues was the purchase of john palmers book "how to brew".

Palmer is generally a really good source of information on such topics as ingredients, enzymes, water etc etc , but he isn't up to speed on BIAB or Nochill. In fact he positively discourages Nochill and says you will get no cold break as you need 'thermal shock' and thus Nochill will give you massive chill haze etc. I did a nochill / cold break experiment which has been posted up on the forum, and the results of tasting by quite a number of people indicate that cold break is either nothing to worry about, or even produces a more flavoursome beer.

Palmer is of course very American - centric and the new methods being successfully used in Australia such as Nochill and BIAB will no doubt take some time to penetrate.

 

[tavas]

Good point Bribie. There's plenty of info on here to compensate for Palmer's book (although he has done an article with Thirsty Boy about BIAB), but sometimes its hard to find or not intuitive. Usually halfway through a thread when the topic changes you'll find a nugget of info. Generally people here have either done, seen it or know someone who did it. That being said, the beauty of homebrewing is its only beer. A failed experiment isn't the end of the world. Beer's been brewed for 8,000 years without Beersmith, bags, eskies digital temperature controllers etc.

 

[Brewer_010]

what stops me ag-ing is stumping up the dosh for the extra kit I need (pot, burner, mashtun), storage space, but also the urge to do so. I just bought a mill so my partials are a hell of a lot easier but I'm not actually sure I even want to go into full ag... the extra time and effort will mean that more of my life is spent on brewing and I have loads of other things to do. Maybe I'll just go back to doing FWKs 80% of the time and doing the odd decent partial? I have enough trouble finding the time to do my small-scale brewing and kegging as it is...

 

[RdeVjun]

If you believe PP is in an eliteist clique, you're quite mistaken and am still struggling to see the connection. Yes, I grant there were some ridiculous things in said post which made my jaw drop, but as BribieG points out, probably a bad hair day and it was subsequently acknowledged, as Nick did too, so perhaps its a little disingenuous.
I don't doubt elitist 3Vers exist though, maybe not so much around here at all but on other boards they exist, and in influential positions (the bigoted JBK **** was a moderator FFS). That also brings up the next point- I hate to break it to some folks, AHB isn't the world's only home brewing forum! A mighty good one it is, just not the only one. Likewise, it needs remembering that guidance for novice AGers does take place outside of forums too, it happens quite a bit in fact.

Righto, to answer the OP. The bewildering terminology and degree of technical proficiency which seemed to be necessary to even try AG. As M^B and others point out, really it isn't that challenging, but as a novice if you scout around a bit, things like water chemistry, perfecting grain crush, stepped mashes, decoction, recipe formulation, lautering techniques and so on make you wonder if you'll ever be able to even make a partial, let alone ever try an experimental AG. It is largely just fluff though, AG is really quite forgiving and it is surprising how hard it is to stuff one up that bad that it isn't even drinkable. The guides, tutorials and so on which demonstrate that AG is doable by mere mortals in their own home without getting a second mortgage are invaluable in blowing away all that fluff.

I quite agree that while its a terrific resource, Palmer is getting dated, just the same way Line for example and despite his foresight, is now dated and so on. But, seeing as it is electronic, perhaps it could be updated to reflect new developments in home brewing, that would be rather helpful.

 

[jyo]

I asked the LHBS about "doing this mashing thing" a few years ago and was told that it is so difficult to do at home that I shouldn't bother. I thought that it was just something that breweries did. So I didn't. Had been steeping grains and boiling hops for years. Then I stumbled upon this place. Lots of budgeting and 6 months reading and here we are (still need to read more). I still do a toucan or minimash from time to time. Haven't found the elitist mob yet, (a few dicks maybe, but hey, it's the internet) only very helpful and passionate people.
John

 

[Nick JD]

If you believe PP is in an eliteist clique, you're quite mistaken and am still struggling to see the connection.

"This thread is an abomination of BIAB which is a method of brewing that many of us older brewers spent countless hours researching, writing on and exploring. People like ThirstyBoy who is one of the few that has done countless mini-BIAB's would find this whole thread quite unbearable - as I do."

Um, yeah, maybe - um slightly kinda just a little bit? OBJECTION!

Overruled. :icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

He made a pretty complete apology though Nick. Elitists don't usually state "I was completely and utterly incorrect about everything important and basically made a tit of myself for which I apologise unreservedly' which he did state (different words, same intent) in that thread. If you still have an issue with it Pm him or something - you accepted the apology in the thread so why make a drama out of it now?

It'd be great if this thread didn't degrade into pointless hair splitting. If there's a brewing illuminati, I'm yet to be inducted and your simplification of stovetop brewing has helped explain small volume AG brewing for a lot of people. It was a well written instructional thread, as have many of pat's and many others also been.

Some debate about various methods but that's life and the internet.

 

[Shed101]

It'd be great if this thread didn't degrade into pointless hair splitting.

Agree

 

[schooey]

If I may offer my opinion on this - I think "elitism" mightn't be the correct term. I would side with "clique", in its positive sense, and add the phrase "blinded with science".

Like any complex hobby, AG brewing is littered with nomenclature rendering the inexperienced dumbfounded. One needs a few days of hardcore immersion just to fit the terminology to the practice.

And it's almost impossible (in a nice way) for the AG experienced to forget what they've learnt and address the noob with simple information that doesn't lead astray (when other experts become involved) the person merely wanting to know what the flip grist means. No one likes to be seen the dummy and there's a lot of flippancy thrown about by experts when a dumb question is asked - it happens everywhere with exasperated experts. Can't blame them for forgetting that they too knew squat.

A simple question on a web forum asked by a noob more often than not snowballs into a brewing term jungle, and the noob thinks, "**** this, I'll buy a can of goop."

Complication is the brick wall between the Kits and AG - and IM sometimes HO it's not a very high wall, but many think it is.

I reckon the last 5% of beer quality comes with 95% of the knowledge needed to make AG beer. Slaphappy AG brewing makes awesome beer and many people don't believe this until they try it, but they don't try it because they don't know the meaning of the words everyone uses.

Interpretation....

Blah blah blah blah... I don't understand; I can't be arsed investing the energy trying to understand. Oh **** I can't ask a question, I might get embarrassed and look like a dick. **** it, I'll just blame all those blokes who did invest the time and energy for intimidating me ... blah blah blah blah

In terms of this site, I'm a relative newb. I came here brewing cans and a kilo. I asked questions. Sought out local brewers. Went to comps, brewdays, the LHBS. I asked more questions. Not once did any of those blokes say "What a stupid question; what sort of ******** are you?" Maybe they thought it... who knows. But the majority of the time, they gave me information that was useful. I applied it. I got into AG. I don't see myself as any part of a clique. Sure I probably have looked like a dick to many more experiencd brewers than myself, and probably will continue to for a lot longer. But I haven't let that get in the way of my desire to learn more about something I love doing.

If you think there's a clique or a mighty elite holding you back, I say to you; Bull....****! You just haven't been bitten hard enough by the bug or you need something else to blame...

 

[proudscum]

Two parcels coming in the post.
One from Germany with a 20l brewery in it.Shipping confirmed today.Go DHL.
One from USA containing a Monster Mill.

Buying some Yeast/Malt and hops from my LHBS oh and some whirfloc.

Recipes and S/S conical at the ready.
Also need to get a Stirplate and some yeast farmer gear.

The four year drought is about to be broken.

 

[Nick JD]

I hereby apologise and retract all defamatory accusations I have made to all and anyone. I'm actually a really nice guy prone to wild outbursts of complete narcisistic drivel. I now realise that with a quick retraction I can get away with being a complete prick and no one will hold it against me.

There ... I fixed it.



I'm sorry if my clandestine brewing tutorials brought anyone any grief whatsoever and fully accept that although they are flawed they are like the frumpy moll you used to shak up with when you were pissed because although she wasn't much to look at she did the business and you'll eventually get something better.

Unless you married her - then God help you.

 

[proudscum]

I hereby apologise and retract all defamatory accusations I have made to all and anyone. I'm actually a really nice guy prone to wild outbursts of complete narcisistic drivel. I now realise that with a quick retraction I can get away with being a complete prick and no one will hold it against me.

There ... I fixed it.



I'm sorry if my clandestine brewing tutorials brought anyone any grief whatsoever and fully accept that although they are flawed they are like the frumpy moll you used to shak up with when you were pissed because although she wasn't much to look at she did the business and you'll eventually get something better.

Unless you married her - then God help you.

Nick you can blame it on living on the border,you must be all at sixes and sevens this time of year with daylight saving.said with something firmly planted in left cheek.

 

[goomboogo]

Proudscum, when do you envisage your first run with the Braumeister? Tell me to mind my own business if you want but I'd be interested to know what the price was for the 20 litre model landed in Australia.

 

[Nick JD]

Nick you can blame it on living on the border,you must be all at sixes and sevens this time of year with daylight saving.said with something firmly planted in left cheek.

Even with States I'm a fence sitter. At State of Origin I put money on a draw.

 

[proudscum]

Even with States I'm a fence sitter. At State of Origin I put money on a draw.

Lived in Byron shire in 1996 and used to smash out 3X K+k a week(F@#K alot of it must have been bad)But my flatmate and i were pretty proud of having 1000 longnecks under the house
i believe we only ever had one bottle explode.I know were i got my hate of malt tang thats for sure.

 

[lordofthebottleshop]

For me it was cost and an understanding of the process. I knew I wanted to get into AG, but had to save over time to get a decent kit together (I wanted the more traditional 3V setup) and do some more research into the process.