Vic Xmas 2009 Case Swap - Tasting Thread

[brettprevans]

happy to be to be **** canned or awarded prizes in a bjcp oriented manner. of course i wont be sampling any for a while but happy to be rated.

 

[therook]

Maple
Warmbeer
Manticle
Leigh
Brendo
Zebba
Hutch
Supra-Jim
Seemax
gava
cm2
4*
sappas
Kleiny

Happy to score and be scorned

Hay rook the Banana Flu didnt kill you :lol:

No Kleiny i've come good but have passed it onto the little fella....

Rook

 

[Fourstar]

happy to be to be **** canned or awarded prizes in a bjcp oriented manner. of course i wont be sampling any for a while but happy to be rated.

See that signature of yours? I expect it to be double the length it currently is in 4 months time. Not to mention a super-fun party organised at yours to help deplete said beer list :beerbang:

 

[manticle]

We should shut up and start tasting.

I thought I'd go in numerical order as far as those that are ready to drink goes so first up is:

1. kleiny - Munich Helles.

Served chilled in a clean, non-chilled glass.

I'm not familiar with this style so my comments are purely based on my impressions of the beer itself. Where brewers seem pretty experienced I'll probably only make light reference to basics like head retention and carbonation unless it warrants a mention. In this beer's case all those things have been knocked on the head (pun slightly intended).

Golden colour, fluffy head, lace as it progresses. Clear

Aroma gives me a scent of something sweet and honeylike. I'm glad that the first sip backs this up as well. It's something I get with some pilseners/pilsners and I'm not sure if it's the pilsner malt or something from one of the noble hops. Whatever it is, I'm a fan. The honey sweetness is nicely balanced with just a hint of bitterness at the finish.

The beer is quite malty and full bodied. There's something almost biscuit like or toasty in the finish too - not sure what it is but it adds to the beer.

Not over the top in any way - subtle balanced flavours and very refreshing as the weather warms up. Reminds me a little of some of the gutsier Eastern European lagers and if it's an indication of how the other swap beers will be then I'm looking forward to them.

I've made a vow that I'm not going to read any style guidelines about beers until after I've tasted them. Likewise the recipes. Just read the bjcp guidelines following tasting and this one seems spot on.

 

[Brewmeister70]

#5 Fourstar's Viet Lager

Straw colour, slightly hazy (I crash chilled this in the freezer) with high carbonation and very good retention of a low head.

Very low malt and hop on the nose (true to style) and minimal yeast character - very, very clean.

Light body with low malt and a very dry finish. hop-malt balance comes down on the hop side but not by much: Almost evenly balanced but the hops lingered the longest in the finish. I can't beleive how clean this beer is. There seems to be a trace of citrussy hop flavour in there but this is an awesomely crafted beer in terms of balance and minimalism of flavour (like an aussie lager). I don't mean that as a criticism but as praise for your skill and ability to nail the guidelines.

This could be confused for something like Tiger Beer in a blind tasting and I'd encourage you to give this a go with some mates. 10/10 for stylistic accuracy and could you tell us how you got this so clean in terms of fermentation? There's really nowhere to hide... I hope you've put some aside for competitions Fourstar.

Cheers for another great beer :beer:

#21 Hutch's Pseudo-Nelson sauvin Lager

Deep gold colour, low head, medium-high carbonation with good retention of head. Bright clarity.

Nose is unsurprisingly all about the Nelson Sauvin: Medium intensity grape/passion fruit that dominates the other characters apart from a little honeyish fermentation character creeping through.

Flavour is similarly hop-driven in that the hop flavour masks the flavours of the malt, however the bitterness is medium which does let the malt come through at the finish. The malt is quite toasty and amber-like in character which is a good contrast to the fruity flavour of the hops.

The body is medium with possibly some crystal malt helping to enhance this and add to the sweetness that works in with the hops.

I found this to be an interesting beer that tends more toward an American pale ale in style than a lager with it's toasty elements and big fruity flavour hopping, though I see where you're coming from in the psot about the actual ingredients putting into the speciality category Hutch.

Another good effort and I feel it's time to try using some of these Sauvin hops after trying this so cheers.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Brewmeister70]

Maple
Warmbeer
Manticle
Leigh
Brendo
Zebba
Hutch
Supra-Jim
Seemax
gava
cm2
4*
sappas
Kleiny
BM70

 

[Leigh]

Yeah of course i'll be in!

To reduce bias in judging, should we all hold off on giving the scores out until everyone judging has scored the beer or just go nuts?!?

As you score em mate, I don't want no collusion between you guys

 

[manticle]

Yeah of course i'll be in!

To reduce bias in judging, should we all hold off on giving the scores out until everyone judging has scored the beer or just go nuts?!?

Lets not get silly. We're all interested in good honest feedback, particularly from people with training and experience but also from those without. Taste and provide honest, accurate feedback as it happens, that's my vote.

Just because I have trouble finding it each time here is a link to the original swap article: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showarticle=100

#3 : Seemax - Kiwi Pale ale

First up I noticed a few people cheated a touch and used some of those bottles from the LHBS that are around 650 mL. I guess I'll cope.

Colour golden, cloudy, good head and lacing which remains.

Unfortunately this is all I can really say about this beer because all I can taste is vinegar. I had a panicked moment at first because I rinse my glasses with clean white vinegar after using any detergents (then rinse again). However I've poured a bit into a second glass and necked a bit of the remainder out of the bottle and I get the same slight sourness in all three tastings which I don't believe is intentional.

I've been getting into a few sour beers and ciders recently so I've been trying to rack my brains for how to make this work but I don't really think it suits. Somewhere along the line, a vinegar infection has taken hold. Hopefully it's just my bottle.

 

[kenlock]

Maple
Warmbeer
Manticle
Leigh
Brendo
Zebba
Hutch
Supra-Jim
Seemax
gava
cm2
4*
sappas
Kleiny
Wonderwoman
BM70
Kenlock

Edit: Not sure how much I can contribute in regards to evaluation but it will help me extend my tasting vocab. Kind of planning to take my own notes and taste beers after others so that I can compare what I'm tasting/smelling/seeing.

PS. Put you back on Wonderwoman.

 

[kenlock]

Im glad you liked it BM but i fear that the Counter Pressure filler may have left some a little low on carb. They are a right pain to use.

The recipe is the same as my 4th in vic brew last year, you can see it in the DB.

Kleiny

#1 Kleiny's Munich Helles
I think I got one of those. No hiss upon opening and no head with the pour. Still a lovely beer.
Golden to deep golden colour (or is it just my lighting) with good clarity. I can see what Manticle is saying with the sweetness with a hint of bitterness.
Do get that toasty malt taste, and full body. Definitely has that regional taste (yeast and noble hops).

Cheers Ken

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Maple
Warmbeer
Manticle
Leigh
Brendo
Zebba
Hutch
Supra-Jim
Seemax
gava
cm2
4*
sappas
Kleiny
Wonderwoman
BM70
Kenlock
Chris Taylor

As the BJCP course organiser guess I better put my name down ... not sure that I will be doing the full blown evaluations personally, but will watch with interest to see what creative descriptive language course attendees can come up with.

Actually think this is a great exercise for you guys, posting it all online so you can learn off each other.

 

[brendo]

I tried mine last night guys - still a bit green and the hops haven't settled in just yet. I would give 7 a few more weeks yet, have updated the wiki accordingly.

Brendo

 

[Hutch]

17a. Zebba - "Redcoats" IPA

A bit short on time, so just a quick recap while I can remember the details...

Deep gold, quite hazy with good carbonation, and great head retention (dense head the length of the pint glass!)

Aroma - First impression was nice hop aroma, with some pungent American hops quite evident. Also a slight musty/dusty character in the background - I suspect yeast character.

Flavour - moderate hops, some residual extract sweetness. Good clean ferment, with minimal higher alcohols, although I also got some obvious yeast character that sings "S-04" to me. It is quite prominent - slightly musty and dirty, with some acetaldehyde as the beer warms.

I would recommend thinking about yeast selection for this style (say US-05, or better - WY1056, WY1272), as the yeast character detracts from an otherwise well crafted beer.

Cheers Zebba.

 

[zebba]

I would recommend thinking about yeast selection for this style (say US-05, or better - WY1056, WY1272), as the yeast character detracts from an otherwise well crafted beer.

Thanks heaps Hutch. Agree 100% with that comment. I had a bit of an addiction to S04 for a few months there (strange, I know), and everything I brewed was using it. In hindsight, it wasn't a great choice.

 

[Fourstar]

19. Fents Cream Ale

Emoticon says a thousand words. Looks like its lactic bud. I'll give you a breakdown of what i tasted.

Light Lactic sourness on the nose, overtakes all malt aroma when fridge cold. As it warms you get some sweet malt/breadiness coming through, somewhat pilsner sweet on the aroma. No hop aroma present. Aroma is otherwise clean.

Appearance is hazy with a golden hue, flavour is tart and lactic, firm peppery/spicy bitterness on the palate and finish is lingering with the bitterness. Mouthfeel was spritzy and drying, malty sweetness was evident on the palate as i worked my way through the sample but unfortunatly its not the beer we once knew Fents!

Honestly, if you have any of these lying around i'd keep a hold of them, its definitly lactic at this point. You might be able to kick off a decent "Imperial Berliner Weisse" as its balanced quite well @ 6% You might get some itneresting results in VICBREW nextyear if you enter as a specialty. best of all the carbonation is only going to get better!

Ive been pondering a Kentucky Common for a while to enter it in the next vicbrew. Basically a Dark amber/copper coloured Soured Cream Ale/Cal Common. Atleast thats what most literature says. I somewhat doubt it ever being like Guinness.

http://homebrewer2005.blogspot.com/2008/02...ommon-rant.html
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Kentucky_Common

 

[Fents]

 

[beerDingo]

Maple
Warmbeer
Manticle
Leigh
Brendo
Zebba
Hutch
Supra-Jim
Seemax
gava
cm2
4*
sappas
Kleiny
Wonderwoman
BM70
Kenlock
Chris Taylor
beerDingo

Bring the good, bad or ugly comments!

 

[manticle]

Got an unexpected day off today so I've had the opportunity to crack one a little early.

5. Fourstar - Reunification Express, Viet Rice Lager

Head forms then dissipates to a thin but retained one. Lacing evident.

Pale golden colour, fairly clear but slight haze.

This is a nice clean lager but reading above I was maybe expecting less flavour. The cleanness does not make this a boring beer. There's a pleasant hops bitterness and the carbonation level seems to accentuate that. There's a very mild orange on the nose and at the front of the palate that I would attribute to hops. I don't know which one. I know I could check the recipe but I'm trying to provide my initial impressions.

There's also something else going on and I'm going to take a stab and suggest it's water additions. It sits at the same part of the palate as the hops bitterness but there's also what might be described as an almost imperceptible saltiness or tanginess at the front of the palate. It's not something I've experienced before and it's certainly not something I would describe as a fault although I'm not sure if I should actually be tasting it. It simultaneously seems to aid in thirst quenching and make me want to take another sip. Unfortunately I can only guess this because I know you are keen on additions - if I knew nothing about your brewing I'm not sure I would have guessed this as the reason or not.

Someone suggested similar to tiger beer but I would rate this above. I like Tiger and I think it does exactly what it's supposed to (clean refreshing, good with spicy food and hot weather) but this does all that and is a bit more interesting/flavoursome.

No esters or yeasty flavours. Not a load of maltiness either but I do get a touch and wonder if there'd be more without the above described character that I've suggested is additions.

Enjoyable summer beer while I struggle through an overdue assignment.

 

[Fourstar]

There's also something else going on and I'm going to take a stab and suggest it's water additions. It sits at the same part of the palate as the hops bitterness but there's also what might be described as an almost imperceptible saltiness or tanginess at the front of the palate. It's not something I've experienced before and it's certainly not something I would describe as a fault although I'm not sure if I should actually be tasting it. It simultaneously seems to aid in thirst quenching and make me want to take another sip. Unfortunately I can only guess this because I know you are keen on additions - if I knew nothing about your brewing I'm not sure I would have guessed this as the reason or not.

No esters or yeasty flavours. Not a load of maltiness either but I do get a touch and wonder if there'd be more without the above described character that I've suggested is additions.

Hmm, this is the approximate water profile i had in ppm

Ca 85, Mg 2, Na 16, SO4 53, Cl 114, HCO3 47

Observing the above, the SO4:Cl ratio is balanced well in the Chloride department at 2:1 Saltiness on the palate is only tasted as sodium, not chloride which is quite low with the Na @ 22ppm. I would say the Cl is middle of the road and i wouldnt say its going overboard. The high end would be 150+ with 300ppm being noticably excessive. With chloride you can get a 'warming sensation' on your tongue if you pop a flake in your mouth (i dont recommend it).

I dont know if thats what you are experiencing as you would only get that at very high concentrations as noted, im guesstimating around 300ppm+. With respect to something sitting with the hop bitterness thats something i can confirm and i'd point that to calcium, it can have a drying raspy effect on your tongue.

Not a load of maltiness either but I do get a touch and wonder if there'd be more without the above described character that I've suggested is additions.

Actually if there was no chloride the malt would be further muted. so would probabaly be more 'swill like'

Either way, the water profile is nothing out of the ordinary. Rather balanced for the style of beer. The only thing that is 'out of place' is the HCO3 content. Yet, its still within an acceptable range for a pale rice lager. I'll have to taste my bottle to confirm what you are getting.

The light fruit flavours you are getting may be from the US Magnum i used. As Perle is a noble hop being floral and spicy. Sort of a saaz come Hallertau come POR.

The recption i get for this beer will be interesting. Its not something easy to pull off. A light flavoured lager that still has malt flavour, nothing OTT, mild hops, thirst quenching and most of all being balanced. With these kind of beers, water additions are the difference between something great and something 'drinkable'. Like comparing a German and a Bohemian Pilsner. Biggest issue you will run into from having a 1st place Pilsner, German or Czech and a middle of the road one is its water profile. For these pale lagers, it can be the difference between 1st place and not placing at all.

If you made a German Pils recipe twice, once with low mineral count water and one with a bucket of calcium and SO4, i guarantee you the one with water additons will be the standout winner.


Either way, glad you liked the beer!

 

[manticle]

Looking at the recipe after making the notes I wondered if it might be the baking soda?

As suggested - not a fault and certainly part of the beer profile. Having tried and failed pils wise once, I'm certain it's not easy to pull off.

I'm not even an infant when it comes to water additions so I'm not sure what it is I'm tasting. I have a reasonably keen palate, partly due to years spent working in kitchens so I've definitely picked something up - just not sure what it is.