Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[SJW]

I would suggest - and I'm no expert by any means - that it should work. Assuming of course, that the cube is completely clean and sanitized etc and that no wild yeast can get in. I guess the storability should be the same as a NC batch, assuming you get all the oxygen out etc, but your sanitation techniques would have to be really good, as you're not getting the benefit of the 90C temperatures in the cube to kill the nasties.

I think u just contradicted yourself here. You say that "it should work" then you say "your sanitation techniques would have to be really good, as you're not getting the benefit of the 90C temperatures in the cube to kill the nasties"
I would guess that your chances would be very low. (Didnt someone already say this?)

I'd say very low, Mark. I'd be surprised if this worked unless you can make it a completely air-free transfer. There are plenty of bacteria and fungus in the air to contaminate that cold wort unless you do. With no heat to kill them, and no yeast to out-compete them, I'd say they'll have a party on your wort in no time.

 

[apd]

So do you call tupperware / decor / ikea / kmart / target etc etc to ask them if their plastic container is "food grade" before you chuck em into the microwave?? I think not. If not why not? It is the same situation.

No, you don't call those companies. You would look on the bottom of the container for the "microwave safe" label. No label means it's not ok.

The original thread was for philosophical discussion & this thread was for those who were putting words into practice. Lets return to that practice can we, & make all comments re botulism, plasticisers, race, religion or politics in the original thread :lol: h34r: ?

I'd say discussing the materials used in an NC system is quite relevant to the practical side of things, so this thread is as good as any.

Andrew

 

[NickB]

I think u just contradicted yourself here. You say that "it should work" then you say "your sanitation techniques would have to be really good, as you're not getting the benefit of the 90C temperatures in the cube to kill the nasties"
I would guess that your chances would be very low. (Didnt someone already say this?)

What I was saying is that while you don't get the benefit of high temperature into the cube to doo the sanitizing, as long as you can exclude oxygen/air from the cube while you fill and store it, then it may just be OK. Anyone willing to do some experimenting? I would, but don't own a chiller!

Cheers

PS: I'm sure I didn't contradict myself, but maybe I did :lol:

 

[drsmurto]

No, you don't call those companies. You would look on the bottom of the container for the "microwave safe" label. No label means it's not ok.
I'd say discussing the materials used in an NC system is quite relevant to the practical side of things, so this thread is as good as any.

Andrew

OT alert .......

FWIW and i think i may be inadvertently helping out Darren here but there is NO regulation on the term 'microwave safe'.

So i suspect the distinction between food grade and not is a grey line........

 

[SJW]

PS: I'm sure I didn't contradict myself, but maybe I did

No probs.
Theres no tension on this thread

 

[chovain]

Theres no tension on this thread

I almost feel bad for asking the question here instead of in a new thread. Well, almost .

 

[browndog]

This isn't entirely on topic, but NickB's comment about batching up brews and fermenting one at a time has got me thinking.

I'm personally happy using my plate chiller, and want to continue using it (I'm not trying to reignite the chill/no-chill debate here). Has anyone had any success carefully transferring cold wort into well sanitised cubes for medium-term (say a week or two) storage? Or is that just not going to work?

Since there are no nasties in the hot wort, the cold wort that comes out the cold-end of my well sanitised, or even sterilised chiller should be clean too, right? If I were to keep the system closed during transfer (in through a keg-like post, air out through an air-lock or valve of some sort, cube initially filled with co2), what are my chances of avoiding infection?

I would not try it unless you are brewing in a sterile surgical theatre, there is no way you can gaurantee you won't get any nasties in there during the transfer of the wort, end of story. Not worth risking 5hrs of loving toil for.

cheers

Browndog

 

[NickB]

No probs.
Theres no tension on this thread

LOL, indeed. I did have a smilie after my last comment though - can't help taking the piss out of myself sometimes..... Makes the time at work go just that much faster.

OK, so in summary, we'll all get fat from too much drinking, grow nice big boobs form the leaching plastic, and die happy and drunk! h34r:

Cheers! :beer:

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Is anyone aware of such passionate debates about no-chilling on other forums?

Is NC popular in any circles other than AHB ??

Cheers

 

[SJW]

Is anyone aware of such passionate debates about no-chilling on other forums?

Is NC popular in any circles other than AHB ??

Cheers

I might throw it out on a UK site and see what they say. It may not even rate a response. :lol:
It has to be the most passionate thread ever on AHB I bet!

Steve

 

[SJW]

One thing I thought of last night that may not be good practice.
Do u USERS OF THE NO CHILLER METHOD leave a tap in the bottom of the NC cube? As there is a fair bit of contraction or suction, what ever u want to call it, even though the cap may be up tight I bet there could be some contamination through the tap. As these things can drip/leak with no pressure just when fermenting.

Steve

 

[Hutch]

One thing I thought of last night that may not be good practice.
Do u USERS OF THE NO CHILLER METHOD leave a tap in the bottom of the NC cube? As there is a fair bit of contraction or suction, what ever u want to call it, even though the cap may be up tight I bet there could be some contamination through the tap. As these things can drip/leak with no pressure just when fermenting.

Steve

Very interesting question Steve.
I've been considering this for some time, as I'd like to transfer from NC cube to the fermenter and leave behind as much break material as possible.Up-ending the cube into the fermenter just mixes the whole lot up, and there is usually quite a bit of solid crap sitting at the bottom of the cube.

I guess you'd have to ensure that the tap was thoroughly cleaned, and got the full dose of pasturisation time.
Might be an acceptable option when you are only considering no-chilling for the time required to cool the wort (up to a few days).
Anyone tried this?

 

[ham2k]

One thing I thought of last night that may not be good practice.
Do u USERS OF THE NO CHILLER METHOD leave a tap in the bottom of the NC cube? As there is a fair bit of contraction or suction, what ever u want to call it, even though the cap may be up tight I bet there could be some contamination through the tap. As these things can drip/leak with no pressure just when fermenting.

Steve

I have a pile of cubes from buying ND Fresh Wort kits. I drilled a hole and put a tap in one for lagering.

When I did a brew recently it was the only clean container around. After transferring hot wort to the container, i had to squeeze some air out so the liquid was at the lid.

Cube closed, i then rolled the container over to make sure the hot wort contacted all of the container including the handle. The plastic had become more malleable and during this process air had started to come in around the tap. There was no wort leaking but air was coming in. I then had to quickly scrub down and clean another cube and then transfer the wort into that. No infection in the end but what a drama.

Lesson learnt: make sure the cube is as intact as possible because I don't think the plastic in the thread will hold its shape up against 90+ degrees, especially when the cube is often squeezed to expel air.

This is another episode in my 'comedy of errors' brewing

 

[apd]

OT alert .......

FWIW and i think i may be inadvertently helping out Darren here but there is NO regulation on the term 'microwave safe'.

So i suspect the distinction between food grade and not is a grey line........

How is this OT? Like I said, we're discussing the materials used in NC.

You've just confirmed my point - that there's confusion about what is food grade/microwave safe and unless something explicitly states it is ok for a specific purpose, I wouldn't be using it for that purpose.

 

[troydo]

i just leave the bung in there

 

[Stuster]

Usually no tap, although the few times I have no-chilled with a tap on the cube, I've noticed no difference at all. But basically, if you are planning on using a cube for no-chill, I think there's no real need for a tap.

 

[SJW]

Usually no tap, although the few times I have no-chilled with a tap on the cube, I've noticed no difference at all. But basically, if you are planning on using a cube for no-chill, I think there's no real need for a tap.

Every NC I have done I have left the tap in, as there is a lot of crap left in the bottom of the cube once cool and by using the tap to transfer u can leave all the crap behind.
But in an effort to refine my NC methods I might try my next one with the bung in and pour the wort into the fermenter through a conical sieve.
I hate those crappy taps when they leak. I have had brand new ones that drip on the fermenter. But thats another thread.

Steve

 

[PostModern]

If you're buying a cube specially for the purpose, try and get a undrilled one. When I got mine, they only had "drilled and bunged" in stock, so I took them. No dramas yet, but it would obviously be better to get intact cubes.

 

[Steve]

Now i'll be paranoid transferring hot wort to my fermenter which has the tap in place :unsure:

 

[warrenlw63]

Each to their own chaps but I reckon putting a tap in a hot/soft cube is a recipe for disaster!

Be just too easy to knock one off accidentally.

I just pour from the cube to the fermenter and damn the torpedoes. Bit of trub in there doesn't seem to cause too many issues.

If you're worried about the first few litres of wort splashing everywhere (as it does from a full cube) you can always get the blue plastic nozzles from Kmart. Just means lashing out $7 and buying the blue 5 litre Willow plastic jerrys which the nozzles come with.

With one of these nozzles screwed on I can just invert the whole cube and let it pour to the fermenter.

Warren -