Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[user 1153]

What yeast(s) do you use, Troy?

Various. Both dried and Wyeast Activators.

So far so good with SAFAle US-05, Wyeast 3638, Ross's Wheat Yeast, Deliverance (WA HBS) Ale Yeast and a SAF Lager yeast.

I've only had one go a bit "funny" but I think that was due to the fact that I pitched a Wyeast 3068 into a too hot wort and sustained the temp at about 22 which in hindsight was probaby too high for that yeast. Still trying to work that one out.

 

[Barge]

Various. Both dried and Wyeast Activators.

So far so good with SAFAle US-05, Wyeast 3638, Ross's Wheat Yeast, Deliverance (WA HBS) Ale Yeast and a SAF Lager yeast.

Do you pitch a starter? It's my understanding that a well aerated starter gives the yeasties all the O2 they need to reproduce. Since they reproduce anaerobically to produce EtOH, it doesn't matter that the wort is unaerated.

 

[Screwtop]

Darren ( who loves to keep this thread alive )

Hey Darren, not trying to drag you off topic (much). Do you drive a car? Leave it parked in the sun then get in and drive home.?

How about the gaseous cocktail inside the car after being parked in the sun, the VOC's and acidic gasses given off by vinyl heated by sunlight, do those gasses kill botulism and other nasty bacteria, hope so cos I know you would then feel much safer driving home in your car. :lol:

 

[Darren]

Hey Darren, not trying to drag you off topic (much). Do you drive a car? Leave it parked in the sun then get in and drive home.?

How about the gaseous cocktail inside the car after being parked in the sun, the VOC's and acidic gasses given off by vinyl heated by sunlight, do those gasses kill botulism and other nasty bacteria, hope so cos I know you would then feel much safer driving home in your car. :lol:

Hey Screwtop,

I do drive a car yes. Lucky for me it is a 1985 Landcruiser made of METAL (no vinyl) so toxic gas given off would not be a problem.


Consumption of leached plasticisers is a real problem though.

BTW, You are an idiot with nothing to contribute to this thread but to diss me. Perhaps you have consumed too much blue cube plastic

For those of you who continually miss the actual point of my comments...

I think that the idea of No-chilling is fine (so long as it is food grade containers), it is the storage of the NC wort that is likely to cause problems with beer spoilage organisms.

cheers

Darren

 

[Barge]

I think that the idea of No-chilling is fine (so long as it is food grade containers), it is the storage of the NC wort that is likely to cause problems with beer spoilage organisms.

You've made your point Darren and unless you've got any other fabulous insights, then

You are an idiot with nothing to contribute to this thread

 

[Stuster]

I think that the idea of No-chilling is fine (so long as it is food grade containers), it is the storage of the NC wort that is likely to cause problems with beer spoilage organisms.

OMFG.

Ok, so for the benefit of us fools, what length of storage time would you consider sensible and why?

 

[Darren]

Coupla days at the most. The more lag time between reaching pitching temp and pitching yeast the better you sanitation needs to be.

cheers

Darren

 

[SJW]

How about the gaseous cocktail inside the car after being parked in the sun, the VOC's and acidic gasses given off by vinyl heated by sunlight, do those gasses kill botulism and other nasty bacteria, hope so cos I know you would then feel much safer driving home in your car.

Oh Screwtop, are u being facetious? <_<

I love this Darren bloke, he knows how to spark up a thread

Steve

 

[troydo]

in all honesty i hadnt really considered keeping the wort in the cube for more than a few days, why would you? it only takes 5 mins to pitch.. maybe 10 mins to steralise..

 

[NickB]

Hey Troydo.

Not sure about others, but for me, keeping a cube of wort for an extended period is really all about time.

Firstly, I don't get huge chunks of time to brew, so brewing a batch or 4 up on my days off, and storing the cubes allows me to have a ready supply of wort to ferment, even when I have extended periods when brewing is just not possible.

And secondly, I only have very average temperature control (ie: chiller box + freezer packs), so can really only ferment one batch at a time (two at a stretch).

Personally, I have yet to experience any problems with storing these full cubes for up to three months. It's all dependent on your sanitation etc though.

Cheers

 

[SJW]

in all honesty i hadnt really considered keeping the wort in the cube for more than a few days, why would you? it only takes 5 mins to pitch.. maybe 10 mins to steralise..

For me its not the time it takes to SANATISE and pitch, but the time it takes to set up the brewery, brew and clean up, I really like to do two brews in the one hit. Therefore I dont want to take the time to chill. I would rather just get 2 down, clean up and I can pitch at a later date.

STEVE

 

[troydo]

fair points

just as asside i do "no chill" i usually brew on saturday and pitch sunday sometime or monday afternoon

 

[chovain]

This isn't entirely on topic, but NickB's comment about batching up brews and fermenting one at a time has got me thinking.

I'm personally happy using my plate chiller, and want to continue using it (I'm not trying to reignite the chill/no-chill debate here). Has anyone had any success carefully transferring cold wort into well sanitised cubes for medium-term (say a week or two) storage? Or is that just not going to work?

Since there are no nasties in the hot wort, the cold wort that comes out the cold-end of my well sanitised, or even sterilised chiller should be clean too, right? If I were to keep the system closed during transfer (in through a keg-like post, air out through an air-lock or valve of some sort, cube initially filled with co2), what are my chances of avoiding infection?

 

[Stuster]

This isn't entirely on topic, but NickB's comment about batching up brews and fermenting one at a time has got me thinking.

I'm personally happy using my plate chiller, and want to continue using it (I'm not trying to reignite the chill/no-chill debate here). Has anyone had any success carefully transferring cold wort into well sanitised cubes for medium-term (say a week or two) storage? Or is that just not going to work?

Since there are no nasties in the hot wort, the cold wort that comes out the cold-end of my well sanitised, or even sterilised chiller should be clean too, right? If I were to keep the system closed during transfer (in through a keg-like post, air out through an air-lock or valve of some sort, cube initially filled with co2), what are my chances of avoiding infection?

I'd say very low, Mark. I'd be surprised if this worked unless you can make it a completely air-free transfer. There are plenty of bacteria and fungus in the air to contaminate that cold wort unless you do. With no heat to kill them, and no yeast to out-compete them, I'd say they'll have a party on your wort in no time.

 

[NickB]

I would suggest - and I'm no expert by any means - that it should work. Assuming of course, that the cube is completely clean and sanitized etc and that no wild yeast can get in. I guess the storability should be the same as a NC batch, assuming you get all the oxygen out etc, but your sanitation techniques would have to be really good, as you're not getting the benefit of the 90C temperatures in the cube to kill the nasties.

My 2c anyhow!

Cheers

 

[chovain]

I'd say very low, Mark. I'd be surprised if this worked unless you can make it a completely air-free transfer. There are plenty of bacteria and fungus in the air to contaminate that cold wort unless you do. With no heat to kill them, and no yeast to out-compete them, I'd say they'll have a party on your wort in no time.

Maybe this would be a good chance for me split myself between chill and NC. Two batches in a day; one chilled to fermenter, the other one NCed to be fermented after the first... Might make for a good experiment, too!

 

[crozdog]

Hey guys,

If it not explicitely marked as food grade then it isn't food grade. Just because you cant taste it doesnt mean that it is not leaching toxins into your beer.

If you call the manufacturer and they say "Hell yeah, it food grade" ask them to supply you with written confirmation that they have advised you that it will be fine at boiling temp wort. If they can't or won't do that then dont use it. Cheap is cheap for a reason.

cheers

Darren ( who loves to keep this thread alive )

Darren,
If you want to find out more about the effects of plastic and chemicals leaching into the environment read "The Feminization of Nature" by by Deborah Cadbury. It is scary stuff.

So do you call tupperware / decor / ikea / kmart / target etc etc to ask them if their plastic container is "food grade" before you chuck em into the microwave?? I think not. If not why not? It is the same situation.

I recognise the points you make about risk of botulism & now leaching plasticizers. It is important that we research the pros/cons for all activities, not just blindly following. I have done that and accept that by subjecting my (non vendor confirmed) food grade containers to a solid sanitising regime, I believe that the chance of contamination by botulism is low. Likewise I am not concerned about leaching plasticisers from the cubes I use (but not others) & that this is another risk I am prepared to accept - like running for the bus in the morning . If anyone doesn't or can't accept those risks, that is their right; they just need to adjust their practices to not use the no chill method. Simple.

Now the same debate has been resoundingly thrashed out yet again, with still no resolution, I propose that everyone retreats to their brewshed use which ever chill/nochill technique you are prepared to accept the risks of and let this thread's focus return to the core of the topic title. If I recall correctly this thread was separated from the original to test the theory - hence the title. The original thread was for philosophical discussion & this thread was for those who were putting words into practice. Lets return to that practice can we, & make all comments re botulism, plasticisers, race, religion or politics in the original thread :lol: h34r: ?

Beers
Crozdog

 

[Stuster]

Maybe this would be a good chance for me split myself between chill and NC. Two batches in a day; one chilled to fermenter, the other one NCed to be fermented after the first... Might make for a good experiment, too!

I've been meaning to do this for ages, but making a double batch and splitting it this way. Then using some dry yeast on both of them to eliminate another variable. One day I'll get round to it, but I hate to disturb the spiders in my chiller.

 

[PostModern]

This isn't entirely on topic, but NickB's comment about batching up brews and fermenting one at a time has got me thinking.

I'm personally happy using my plate chiller, and want to continue using it (I'm not trying to reignite the chill/no-chill debate here). Has anyone had any success carefully transferring cold wort into well sanitised cubes for medium-term (say a week or two) storage? Or is that just not going to work?

Since there are no nasties in the hot wort, the cold wort that comes out the cold-end of my well sanitised, or even sterilised chiller should be clean too, right? If I were to keep the system closed during transfer (in through a keg-like post, air out through an air-lock or valve of some sort, cube initially filled with co2), what are my chances of avoiding infection?

I'd say you have bugger all chance of that working. But by all means try.

Maybe this would be a good chance for me split myself between chill and NC. Two batches in a day; one chilled to fermenter, the other one NCed to be fermented after the first... Might make for a good experiment, too!

The other way round probably works better in terms of time. You have your second mash going while the first boil is on, then rack the first into to a NC cube. I suppose it'd make little difference if you had a CFC, but if you had an immersion chiller, your second batch would be "wasting time" in the mash tun while the second batch chilled.

 

[drsmurto]

Darren,

So do you call tupperware / decor / ikea / kmart / target etc etc to ask them if their plastic container is "food grade" before you chuck em into the microwave?? I think not. If not why not? It is the same situation.

Beers
Crozdog

You shouldnt be microwaving food in plastic - man you boys are cowboys! h34r: