Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[warrenlw63]

Mark has sold thousands of fresh wort packs and none of them have had an infection problem. These are commercially produced and are packaged using the same sterile techniques used by jam and baked bean makers.

Hey Dave would you be divulging any trade secrets by giving more details here? I'm sure there'd be a lot of people who'd really love more insight on the methods and processes that the commercial fresh wort kit producers are using. Be pretty interesting stuff.

Warren -

 

[yardy]

Hey Yardy, Well it might not be the best method , it did lower the level in the air lock but not all the way .. I spray no rince all over the place .. wipe out my brewing fridge and my brew box with no rince every time I open the doors. spray a bit more around , all over the fermenter , every where .. I use way too much of the stuff but in this enviroment you need to be careful..

I've read that people have bought a liter of Phos acid and it lasts them years , I just bought my second Lt this year.. Ha ha but its cheep insurance...


Cheers

whatever works for you FNQ, i get a bit liberal with the Betadine at times.

Cheers

I rack straight from the kettle into the fermenter and let it cool overnight then chuck it in the fridge in the morning and pitch that afternoon. I've done 60 or so NCs now and never had a problem. I don't have an airlock though, just a thermowell.

cheers

Browndog

Browny,

i've thought of doing this but i like to aerate the wort by the transfer to the bucket.

Cheers

I no chill straight into the fermenter.

My method for stopping nasties entering the airlock hole is to totally soak a small piece of cloth in prox and then just place it over the hole. Air will naturally be sucked in overnight but at least it has to work it's way through the prox.

Has been working fine for me like this for all my brews.

Similar to the reply to Browny, how do you aerate the wort for pitching troy ?

Cheers

 

[bigfridge]

Hey Dave would you be divulging any trade secrets by giving more details here? I'm sure there'd be a lot of people who'd really love more insight on the methods and processes that the commercial fresh wort kit producers are using. Be pretty interesting stuff.

Warren -

Hi Warren,

No big secrets - you could just ask your grandma how she used to make jam

As in jam, you need to use heat to sterilise the container. This means that the cube must be filled while the wort is near boiling point and that all surfaces of the cube must be immersed so that the heat can do its job.

This is simply done by laying the cube on its side for the required time to fully heat the cube lid and handle, before standing it up again to do the side that was uppermost.

Guys who are doing any cooling (either in the boiler or by dumping it in the swimming pool) are not using a 'no-chill' method - they are just making food for the wild yeast and bacteria with the obvious results.

Dave

 

[warrenlw63]

Agreed!

I remember your post some time ago about laying the cube on its side and follow this procedure (many thanks). I thought for a minute that you blokes may have had some kind of whizz bang method of pasteurizing the wort once in the cubes.

Looks like I'm not missing out on anything here. :lol:


(Note I might put some wax paper and a rubber band on top of my cube instead of a lid. My Nanna would approve)

Warren -

 

[SJW]

Hi Steve,

You just need to be a little careful with your wording there otherwise you will give the wrong impression.

Thanks Dave,
I guess the point I was making is that even for the big boys this method is not fool proof for one reason or another.
I would still like all to come clean on the Disasters thread as this might help people be more aware of just how carfull we need to be using this method. Me included.

Steve

 

[therook]

whatever works for you FNQ, i get a bit liberal with the Betadine at times.

Cheers
Browny,

i've thought of doing this but i like to aerate the wort by the transfer to the bucket.

Cheers
Similar to the reply to Browny, how do you aerate the wort for pitching troy ?

Cheers

I would say he is using an airstone and pump.

Rook

 

[Steve]

whatever works for you FNQ, i get a bit liberal with the Betadine at times.

Cheers
Browny,

i've thought of doing this but i like to aerate the wort by the transfer to the bucket.

Cheers
Similar to the reply to Browny, how do you aerate the wort for pitching troy ?

Cheers

Yardy - I also put the hot wort straight into fermenter, chill overnight and pitch the next morning. I asked the same question as I thought you would have to pour that into another fermenter and aerate it. I got told that with dry yeast (I dont use liquid yeast) you dont need to aerate the wort. I re-hydrate the yeast in the morning, pitch and its always taken off by the end of the day. No problems.
Cheers
Steve

 

[PostModern]

Mark has sold thousands of fresh wort packs and none of them have had an infection problem.

I guess the point I was making is that even for the big boys this method is not fool proof for one reason or another.

I think you'll find it is foolproof for the big boys. Scotty from NNL introduced the practice to the IBUs (inc myself). I follow the "foolproof" method (with the exception that I reuse my cubes) and have not had one balloon yet. You have to follow the method to the letter or it may not work, as I said in my last and many other posts. I'm actually thinking of putting a thermometer into my kettle just so I can make sure I don't leave the whirlpool settling phase too long.

 

[SJW]

Hey PM, with my latest balls up'S, I am looking to buy another "cube" I had a look today at Supercheap and they had Willow "BLUE" Jerry cans but I could not find the magic triangle 2 or HDPE on it anywhere. Does anyone have it on good authority that Blue is best or equal too?

 

[apd]

Hey PM, with my latest balls up'S, I am looking to buy another "cube" I had a look today at Supercheap and they had Willow "BLUE" Jerry cans but I could not find the magic triangle 2 or HDPE on it anywhere. Does anyone have it on good authority that Blue is best or equal too?

I'd be careful about assuming anything regarding plastic. If it isn't marked as food grade, don't assume it is.

Here are a couple of links regarding food grade plastics:

Link One (note the part that says not all HDPE is food grade and PP is better at higher temps).

Link Two

Andrew

 

[SJW]

I just e-mailed Willows customer suport and they assure me that the Blue Willow 20 litre Jerry cans are all HDPE. Although I don't like to assume anything either.

Steve

 

[rehnton]

Hey PM, with my latest balls up'S, I am looking to buy another "cube" I had a look today at Supercheap and they had Willow "BLUE" Jerry cans but I could not find the magic triangle 2 or HDPE on it anywhere. Does anyone have it on good authority that Blue is best or equal too?

Ive been using the 'BLue' jerries for the last 9 months. Havent had a dodgy batch yet but these jerries do stain easily. With 4 batches or so they are stained awith nasty brown which refuses to budge even after bleach or one shoot. Im yet to try napisan but on past experience i doubt that it will shift this staining.

all-in-all the blue jerries are cheap and i havent had any problems besides the stain

 

[SJW]

Ive been using the 'BLue' jerries for the last 9 months. Havent had a dodgy batch yet but these jerries do stain easily. With 4 batches or so they are stained awith nasty brown which refuses to budge even after bleach or one shoot. Im yet to try napisan but on past experience i doubt that it will shift this staining.

all-in-all the blue jerries are cheap and i havent had any problems besides the stain

Try Sodium Percarb with hot water or if all else fails PSR will do the job.

Steve

 

[bigfridge]

Thanks Dave,
I guess the point I was making is that even for the big boys this method is not fool proof for one reason or another.
I would still like all to come clean on the Disasters thread as this might help people be more aware of just how carfull we need to be using this method. Me included.

Steve

Hi Steve,

To back up PoMo's comment - it does work for the 'big boys'.

The HAG brewday was not done by one of the 'big boys' as the standard procedure wasn't fully followed. If it had been then there would have been the expected zero infection rate. This is not something that relies on chance or bad luck - there is centuries of science behind it.

One key aspect of the HAG day that does not comply with a brewery's standard procedure is that there is a lot of beer drunk during the brewing process and plenty of distractions during packaging that can allow sub-standard practices to occur.

Compare a HAG day with a sober, single brewer concentrating on brewing and packaging a batch.

Dave

 

[user 1153]

Similar to the reply to Browny, how do you aerate the wort for pitching troy ?

I simply don't aerate. Yup, I know it may sound strange but I don't bother. My pitched yeast has always started vigorously and I've always ended up with an FG where either I'd expect it or the recipe I was following estimated it would be.

Troy

Edit: You may read an earlier post of mine somewhere around the forum where I used to strain post-boil into the fermenter. That obviously introduced lots of O2 but it was also introducing HSA so I've ceased that practice and use a kettle side strainer built in and gently add the wort to the fermenter.

 

[PostModern]

Hey PM, with my latest balls up'S, I am looking to buy another "cube" I had a look today at Supercheap and they had Willow "BLUE" Jerry cans but I could not find the magic triangle 2 or HDPE on it anywhere. Does anyone have it on good authority that Blue is best or equal too?

I don't know anything about the blue plastic. I use these (well the molding on the top is a little different in mine):
http://www.cospak.com.au/productdetails.asp?ProductID=7591

They are about $6 or $7 each. So far, I've put about 5 brews through each of my cubes, so they work out pretty cheap, but who's counting anyway? I've also used cubes I bought originally filled with NNL and ESB wort kits. Never had a drama re-using those guy's packs, either, just clean when emptied and sanitise before use.

 

[Stuster]

What yeast(s) do you use, Troy?

 

[Darren]

Ive been using the 'BLue' jerries for the last 9 months. Havent had a dodgy batch yet but these jerries do stain easily. With 4 batches or so they are stained awith nasty brown which refuses to budge even after bleach or one shoot. Im yet to try napisan but on past experience i doubt that it will shift this staining.

all-in-all the blue jerries are cheap and i havent had any problems besides the stain

Hey guys,

If it not explicitely marked as food grade then it isn't food grade. Just because you cant taste it doesnt mean that it is not leaching toxins into your beer.

If you call the manufacturer and they say "Hell yeah, it food grade" ask them to supply you with written confirmation that they have advised you that it will be fine at boiling temp wort. If they can't or won't do that then dont use it. Cheap is cheap for a reason.

Why would they care if it could cause you health problems. After all they just need to sell product. (Chances are they are just the equivalent of the supermarket chick who just work there anyhow with absolutely no knowledge of plastics).

cheers

Darren ( who loves to keep this thread alive )

 

[Darren]

I just e-mailed Willows customer suport and they assure me that the Blue Willow 20 litre Jerry cans are all HDPE. Although I don't like to assume anything either.

Steve

Hey guys,

If it not explicitely marked as food grade then it isn't food grade. Just because you cant taste it doesnt mean that it is not leaching toxins into your beer.

If you call the manufacturer and they say "Hell yeah, its food grade" ask them to supply you with written confirmation on their letterhead that they have advised you that it will be fine at boiling temp wort. If they can't or won't do that then dont use it. Cheap is cheap for a reason. This also goes for people who say they have confirmation from manufacturers on internet threads <_<

Why would they care if it could cause you health problems. Chances are they have absolutely no knowledge of plastics and plastic regulation but need to justify their use of less than satisfactory methodology

cheers

Darren

 

[SJW]

Darren ( who loves to keep this thread alive )

Go Dazza

Hi Steve,

To back up PoMo's comment - it does work for the 'big boys'.

The HAG brewday was not done by one of the 'big boys' as the standard procedure wasn't fully followed. If it had been then there would have been the expected zero infection rate. This is not something that relies on chance or bad luck - there is centuries of science behind it.

One key aspect of the HAG day that does not comply with a brewery's standard procedure is that there is a lot of beer drunk during the brewing process and plenty of distractions during packaging that can allow sub-standard practices to occur.

Compare a HAG day with a sober, single brewer concentrating on brewing and packaging a batch.

Dave

I was not flaming u guys or the big boys. Thats why I specifically did not make mention of any HAG day brew infecting. I was just quoting what Mark told me about his ESB fresh wort packs.
But I do agree with you and I understand that my 2 infections were due to bad QC.
That would be another good reason not to drink on a brew day!

Steve