Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[Lukes]

Warren,
No polenta just rice and corn in a almost burnt on the stove top cereal mash and some flaked corn to get the % up.
Note to myself (next time buy more flaked corn and rice than you need).
This was the dregs of the cube when I was transferring to the fermenter.

Luke

 

[Ross]

I did up 4 fresh wort kits up for Noel when he was here, to brew on the beach in WA. One of these cubes (new) actually did swell up but he still added yeast & fermented it. Said it tasted a bit wierd, but he still drank it all, so guess it wasn't botulism :unsure: . There again I haven't heard from him in a while - YOU OK NOEL???

Cheers Ross

 

[hoppydog]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something. I dont have any cubes, but I like the idea of no-chill, and I plan to try it with a fermenter.

Would the air gap be a problem? If so I could make sure to fill the HDPE fermenter, and run some of the wort into a second fermenter for the actual fermentation step.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

thats how i do it hoppy dog, straight from the kettle to the fermenter, leave overnight airate and pitch next day when it's at optimum temp. i don't have a chiller so it's the only way i can all grain brew

-Phill

 

[Ross]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something. I dont have any cubes, but I like the idea of no-chill, and I plan to try it with a fermenter.

Would the air gap be a problem? If so I could make sure to fill the HDPE fermenter, and run some of the wort into a second fermenter for the actual fermentation step.

Hi hoppydog,

Exactly the way i do it - just leave the airlock out, I put a plastic bottle cap over the grommet to stop anything crawling in.

cheers ross

 

[PostModern]

Only issue at home has been reusing a cube and chucking in the pool, cooling quickly then ending in troubled waters. Otherwise heat + time is an important factor as is good process.

Yeah, rapid chilling and not immediately pitching seems to be a recipe for disaster.

I'm still in the throws of deciding whether to swap to no-chill... mainly I suspect my rectitude is due to the fact that I have a fairly recently puchased IM chiller that cost a bloody bomb... and I have to self justify the expense.

No reason you can't do both. Would be great for double brew days with only one free fermenter. No-chill the first into a cube then do a regular chiller batch into a fermenter.

Check out the break in this C.A.P sample (dregs) that was left overnight on the bench.

Chilled no chill :blink:

Cold break still forms when chilling no-chill.

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

Yeah. I did this when I brewed at a mate's place once before I got my stock of cubes. The beer turned out great (pKoelsch).

 

[barneyhanway]

I'd like to welcome Colin too, love your spots on the BN - very informative, THANKYOU!

Hoppydog, I go from kettle to fermenter overnight, then pitch. No issues so far. I fill the airlock with cool boiled water, some inevitably gets sucks back in as a function of the cooling wort. Hasn't been an infection issue for me but there is a risk, you should decide whether or not that risk is acceptable to you.

As far as I've been able to tell it does get around the concern of botulism, as the toxin can't survive in an aerobic environment, Colin you might be able to lend some expertise there?

 

[Adamt]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something. I dont have any cubes, but I like the idea of no-chill, and I plan to try it with a fermenter.

Would the air gap be a problem? If so I could make sure to fill the HDPE fermenter, and run some of the wort into a second fermenter for the actual fermentation step.

Instead of doing this, I just leave it in the kettle with the lid on, saves the hassle of transferring boiling hot wort. I just spray the inside of the pot and lid with orthophosphoric acid. Cools quicker in the pot anyway

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I fill the airlock with cool boiled water, some inevitably gets sucks back in as a function of the cooling wort. Hasn't been an infection issue for me but there is a risk, you should decide whether or not that risk is acceptable to you.

If infection from Suck Back (tm) was a concern, you could use a sterile air filter in place of the airlock such as two-thirds of the site sponsors sell. That way, you get gas transfer in both directions, but no passage of nasties.

 

[user 1153]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something.

Ditto to what others have said. This is my method of chilling.

I soak a cloth in a Prox solution and drape it over the airlock hole.

 

[Doc]

As per another members idea and concept earlier in the topic, I build myself a cubespanner this arvo.

No more busted bleeding fingers. Works a treat.

Beers,
Doc

 

[lucas]

I bought cube no. 2 today, sadly i dont think it's up for the task. it's labeled as a 20L water jerry can, and it's one of the taller, thinner ones. it's got two lids which i though would be great when pouring it into the fermenter through a strainer, to stop the "blop blop"'ing because there's no air flowing in to replace the liquid.

problem 1: the lids dont seal properly. big hint to anyone looking for cubes, make sure they have rubber seals in the lid to make a firm seal. this jerry can didnt, and now it's sucked in about 5L of air. when I sealed it it was full to the brim. no amount of tightening seems to be able to seal this one.

problem 2: the tall thin containers dont seem to hold their shape nearly as well as the squat square ones. I'm pretty sure I got about 25L into this (apparently) 20L container because the sides buldged way out. I definitely didnt feel safe squeezing the air out of this one to seal the lid.

I'm pretty disappointed since i thought the flat bottom on this one was going to make syphoning off the trub much easier, but I dont know if I'll be no chilling in this one again. might make an ok container for secondaries though.

summary: make sure you're lids have rubber seals in them.

 

[Kingy]

Ive got the 20 litre plastic jerrys and they came with rubber seals. 1 Out 4 lids is a little dodgy but it does seal eventually after tighening and loosing a few times. Theres a trick to it

I usually fill with 20-23 litres and stand it on its opposite corner to the lid and squeeze the air out this way as so i get most of it out.

I can also squeeze all the air out this way with only 17 litres in it.

cheers kingy

p.s probably a silly question but did you soak the new container for a few days to get the plastic smell out.


edit:just reread your post, sounds like you have a differant container to me

 

[Doc]

And now for the bad news.
I've had my first cube go bad.
I've been doing No Chill all year (each batch typically 2 cubes) and I brew at least twice a month.
The last batch I brewed was a Marzen (July 7) getting two cubes. Noticed today that one was swollen. Hadn't noticed in previously in the week so must have just taken.
Cube was tight and no longer square, it was almost oval. I have my cubes super tight with pretty much zero headspace.
Both cubes got the same dosage rate of PSR for the same period.
Only thing I can think of is that I also santise the transfer tube in one of the cubes and from memory I had difficulty getting it out, so maybe I transfered something nasty in my efforts.
I cracked the lid, got a hiss. Took a whif and got a slightly off smell. The smell that you get from a very mild infection, or a very mild lambic.
Tipped it down the drain which hurt, because it was a beautiful deep orange sweet wort that will hopefully be an awesome Marzen. The second cube is still ok, but I was planning on fermenting all 50 litres together to make the best use of tying up the lager fridge. Oh well. RDWHAHB.

Doc

 

[PostModern]

Bummer Doc. Personally, I don't "trust" PSR as a sanitiser, I use it after emptying a cube (to ensure it's stored free of wort between uses) but wash the cubes with iodophor before filling.

I also notice a bit of headspace in those pics. Is that just because of the infection or do you leave some airspace after filling? I think it's OK to have some small amount of headspace in the cubes, provided you turn the cubes over after filling to allow the heat to do it's work on the top of the cube.

 

[Kai]

I'm currently using PSR as my sanitiser since I have nothing else, but regardless of what I use everything gets a rinse with boiling water.

 

[tangent]

not no-frills boiling water Kai? that stuff is so cheap, how could it possibly work effectively?

 

[Kai]

Only Perrier or Evian, thank you.

 

[tangent]

"boiled fizzy water for the expensive sandgroper over here thankyou waiter!"

 

[Doc]

I also notice a bit of headspace in those pics. Is that just because of the infection or do you leave some airspace after filling? I think it's OK to have some small amount of headspace in the cubes, provided you turn the cubes over after filling to allow the heat to do it's work on the top of the cube.

The headspace is because the cube went bad. I have a bubble or two of space at most in a cube after filling and tightening the cube. This is typically from the airspace in the handle. I use clamps to squeeze the sides until a little wort flows before tightening the cap to ensure I have the minimialist amount of air in the cube.

Doc

 

[colinsk]

As far as I've been able to tell it does get around the concern of botulism, as the toxin can't survive in an aerobic environment, Colin you might be able to lend some expertise there?

Well, this is my only concern. You can't kill anyone with the traditional method of making beer because (so far) no organisms that are pathogenic can survive the process. Here is my worst case thoughts. You take your wort and put it into a cube that has botulism spores in it. Now if the pH is 5.2 then it should kill the spores. However if you are using very alkaline water and only pale malts and you don't adjust your water with Ca, Mg or acid then you might have a wort pH of 5.8 or higher.

I have been able to find a paper about pH and botulism and the pH of 5.5 kills pretty much any variety. However some rare variety's can survive at 5.5. This particular variety was found in a Australian coastal town.

Now when the wort comes from the boil it is for all intents and purposes of the discussion anaerobic. The is simply not enough O2 to kill botulism. Then as it cools you will get to the optimum temperature to culture the spores. Remember, the yeast lower the pH further and kill the botulism (or it should) so once it is pitched you only have to worry about the poison of the cells that happened to grow.

This is pretty much everything I know.

Thank you everyone for the kind words! I hope to do some more BN shows soon but I am not on the schedule yet.

 

[matti]

Any lager brewers that use no chill?
matti

 

[Duff]

Any lager brewers that use no chill?
matti

Yep.

 

[oldbugman]

yep

 

[PostModern]

I've n/c'd three lagers so far.

 

[matti]

When new gear has been put through the paces with an APA of sort the lagers will be going brewd my way.
Didn't want to spend any more $$$$$$
cheers

 

[Doc]

Brewed an American Brown about a month ago and added ~100gr of cascade flowers in a hop bag into the cube.
Cracked it today to ferment it.
Wow what an aroma.
Only downside is getting the dam hops out. I knew it would probably be an issue, but I think it is going to be worth it :beerbang:

Doc

 

[Stuster]

Nice one, Doc. Flowers as well. How did you get them out?

 

[Steve]

Brewed an American Brown about a month ago and added ~100gr of cascade flowers in a hop bag into the cube.
Cracked it today to ferment it.
Wow what an aroma.
Only downside is getting the dam hops out. I knew it would probably be an issue, but I think it is going to be worth it :beerbang:

Doc

View attachment 15055
View attachment 15056

the bags swollen that big because it sucked up all the wort. You can see the inside of the tap outlet in the bottom of the fermenter in the top pic :lol:
Cheers
Steve

 

[Doc]

Nice one, Doc. Flowers as well. How did you get them out?

Undid the hop bag through the hole and pulled the flowers out a couple at a time.
My hands still smell of hops, and the laundry (where the empty cube and hop bag are) smell like a hop garden :super:

Doc