The Brauduino (Matho’s Controller) Build/Advice/Question Thread

[lael]

The part number is CSR2-15E , not too sure how hot the thing will get without a bigger heat sink or how much noise it will make / if any further suppression is needed? (experimental idea)

The toggle switch is however IMHO a must for me, the idea both supplies are connected then with a simple toggle of two switches I can choose between either element / none at all or both.

Wow, that is significantly expensive from element14 etc here in Aus - 115AUD. Looks like it is available on ebay from the UK for 65 for anyone that wants one. It does look like a small heatsink... but it is rated to 15A, so you can only assume they've done their job. Does the datasheet for it say anything about cooling?

The toggle switch is not a bad idea. I usually just plug in the elements I'm going to use, but if the controller is in a fixed location and permanently wired I can see the attraction.

The Neutrik TrueCon / True1 were one of the sockets I looked at, but the cost was prohibitive for the project. (edit: and at the time they were rated to 15A, not 20A like the sockets selected - I think they are still15A for 240V operation. I'm not actually aware of anyone using 20A at the moment... but it's nice to have the option. If you are - let me know!)

Nice work on your build! It would be great to see pics of it in operation!

 

[barneey]

Yep the True1's are rated lower the trade off is of course the under load disconnection, all depends on how much load is going through the setup, I assume the ones used on the build are the equivalent of the http://www.neutrik.com/en/video/powercon/powercon-20-a/

At the moment with the build the SSR's are wired "direct" to the elements (with the low voltage providing the power to switch the SSR), is there any issues with power leakage across the SSR's?

Reason for asking on my large box build I had separate switching (low voltage switch with a relay) between the output of the SSR and element, thus no possibility of leakage.

As there isn't very much room in the box for additional items, so at its very lowest form a simple switch could be employed on the low voltage side to prevent the SSR auctioning (this wouldn't solve any possible leakage problem) but would give me the ability for everything to be connected and an element choice, the other solution to install high voltage switches to manually open / close the element circuit,.... all the way through to switches & relays as aforementioned.

 

[lael]

Yep the True1's are rated lower the trade off is of course the under load disconnection, all depends on how much load is going through the setup, I assume the ones used on the build are the equivalent of the http://www.neutrik.com/en/video/powercon/powercon-20-a/

At the moment with the build the SSR's are wired "direct" to the elements (with the low voltage providing the power to switch the SSR), is there any issues with power leakage across the SSR's?

Reason for asking on my large box build I had separate switching (low voltage switch with a relay) between the output of the SSR and element, thus no possibility of leakage.

As there isn't very much room in the box for additional items, so at its very lowest form a simple switch could be employed on the low voltage side to prevent the SSR auctioning (this wouldn't solve any possible leakage problem) but would give me the ability for everything to be connected and an element choice, the other solution to install high voltage switches to manually open / close the element circuit,.... all the way through to switches & relays as aforementioned.

Yeah, I was concerned about the load disconnection - after speaking with some of the Neutrik tech guys I was less concerned. I personally connect and disconnect my units (using the power connectors provided with the kits) all the time without any issues at all. However - it is important to note that is with 10A running through them. From memory, the technical guys mentioned that it becomes more of an issue when increasing the power throughput.

I've never had any issues with leakage - ie: zero temp creep with everything plugged in and heat off. I'll test amperage leakage/draw when I hang out with an electrician friend after Christmas and report back. There is leakage of 230V through the SSR when there is no load (which is normal for SSRs from the reading I've done on the issue), however what I've read is that it isn't actually a problem once a load is connected. I'll report back.

What do you mean by SSR auctioning? I would encourage you to give the controller a go before complicating it further. I think you will find that it will do everything you want without further modification. And yeah... it was tough fitting it all in the box as it is! I'm pretty happy with how it has turned out.

 

[barneey]

What do you mean by SSR auctioning? = dam spelling auto correct. action-ing

As there is only one outlet on the board for the elements & I wish to use 2, I have wired them as the YouTube vid, 2 sets of wire out of the socket to their individual SSR's.

I intend to use 2 elements only when getting up to temperature , that being for example a single temp mash 65 or to the boil 100. (2 might be used during the boil depends on unit operation / will one hold a reasonable boil)

This means that with the control panel as is I would need to manually disconnect the socket at the rear of the panel (element or secondary power socket), so if 2 simple low voltage switches were incorporated I could stop the signage getting to either SSR., you would have then full control over which element to use, or stop one of them at anytime during the brew.

Is there anyway of achieving the same thing through the control panel set up or indeed another signal that could be taken off the Arduino unit so that instead of a single out for the elements the unit would have 2 outs? Software adaptation that 2 elements would fire up when getting up to temp only 1 would fire when nearly upto temp or on boil stage. My Arduino knowledge / programming isn't a strong point so am reliant on others.

I am more than happy with the box as it is but would like to tweak a few things to suit my personal preference.

Cheers

 

[bungelbear]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts were. I think this has been mentioned somewhere, but as i was building my kit, i daisychained my nuetral connections as well as my ground terminals. So i have essentially nuetraled my secondary plugs to my primary plugs. I don't think it is a problem as it is a return path, but can someone smarter than me confirm this? my sparky is away. Thanks

 

[lael]

Hi Barneey,

Sorry, I misread what you had written. I think the low voltage switch idea for turning the elements on and off is clever and will work well.

My comment about not modifying the controller was to encourage you not to worry about the voltage leakage. I think you'll find it to be a non issue. For the SSR switches, I would be tempted to use a latching switch, which should give you the effect you want.

 

[lael]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts were. I think this has been mentioned somewhere, but as i was building my kit, i daisychained my nuetral connections as well as my ground terminals. So i have essentially nuetraled my secondary plugs to my primary plugs. I don't think it is a problem as it is a return path, but can someone smarter than me confirm this? my sparky is away. Thanks

Don't power it up, post a photo. If you've done what I think you're saying you've done it will cause issues.

 

[barneey]

Hi Barneey,

Sorry, I misread what you had written. I think the low voltage switch idea for turning the elements on and off is clever and will work well.

My comment about not modifying the controller was to encourage you not to worry about the voltage leakage. I think you'll find it to be a non issue. For the SSR switches, I would be tempted to use a latching switch, which should give you the effect you want.

I have managed to obtain some 15amp 240v illuminated rocker switches were are IP44 rated (not the best but should be ok for my use & will mount them underneath) I was planning to use them on the feed to each individual SSR feed thus giving me the element selection option and the ability to switch off power to the SSR (wont use them after the SSR due to the fast switching of the SSR and the illumination might take a hammering). There should be enough mounting room at the bottom of the box (fingers crossed) for the switches. Please if anyone can think why this wouldn't be a good idea let me know , I will instead wire them to the low voltage signal feed.

The switches should arrive tomorrow so will be fitting Tuesday / Wednesday.

 

[lael]

Sounds good. The illumination won't work on the DC side, but I agree, I wouldn't want to run the illumination on the AC side due to frequent switching (although I'd be interested to see how long it lasts... got a spare switch?) If you are putting the buttons underneath I'm assuming you are mounting the box on your rig so the controller doesn't need to sit flat on the ground (ever..? asking cause you will lose some flexibility if buttons are on the bottom)

edit - the SSR's DC input are on the 12vdc line, and the transistor can handle up to 600mAdc

 

[SBOB]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts were. I think this has been mentioned somewhere, but as i was building my kit, i daisychained my nuetral connections as well as my ground terminals. So i have essentially nuetraled my secondary plugs to my primary plugs. I don't think it is a problem as it is a return path, but can someone smarter than me confirm this? my sparky is away. Thanks

Agreeing with laels comment.. If I'm reading that right your 'don't think that's a problem' is actually a pretty big problem.

Daisy chain grounds.. Good
Daisy chain neutrals on potentially different power circuits... Bad

 

[barneey]

Sounds good. The illumination won't work on the DC side, but I agree, I wouldn't want to run the illumination on the AC side due to frequent switching (although I'd be interested to see how long it lasts... got a spare switch?) If you are putting the buttons underneath I'm assuming you are mounting the box on your rig so the controller doesn't need to sit flat on the ground (ever..? asking cause you will lose some flexibility if buttons are on the bottom)

edit - the SSR's DC input are on the 12vdc line, and the transistor can handle up to 600mAdc

But if I put them on the VAC side before the SSR the illumination will still work, they will just illuminate when the power is supplied via the socket, which is in some ways better as you can see instantly if the element is "going" to work.

RS part number 377-9765

C6053ALNAM Manf no

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/54416.pdf

I have also gone for the protective cover and bezel option. (might have to hack the panel thickness for those to work).

It might be necessary to remove part of switch to make things fit / solder the connections rather than crimps to save room, after a few measurements tonight, 2 should fit (fingers crossed).

 

[lael]

Yeah, it just depends on whether you want the light to show whether there is power flowing to the SSR, or whether it shows there is actually power flowing to the heater (my opinion is that lights showing heater on is more intuitive). Its not too expensive... Wire it up and see how long the light lasts

 

[barneey]

I have fitted the switches I wanted, tight fit but everything misses each other in the box itself, just need to make the minor wiring alteration inside to connect the switches & its power up time again.

 

[barneey]

Box now rewired inside, no magic smoke escaped when power switched on, just need to find time to do a few live load tests to confirm all is well.

I'll make a bracket of somesort to fit panel to the BM & job done (nearly).

Note:- The illumination didn't last very long on account of modifying the switch to fit in the box, the green does however look better than a plain black.

 

[bungelbear]

Don't power it up, post a photo. If you've done what I think you're saying you've done it will cause issues.

Agreeing with laels comment.. If I'm reading that right your 'don't think that's a problem' is actually a pretty big problem.

Daisy chain grounds.. Good
Daisy chain neutrals on potentially different power circuits... Bad

so i forgot to check back on to the thread, and plugged it in..... didnt go bang, and worked. but here is a pic for you to tell me otherwise. i can always cut out the cable btween primary and secondary plugs if need be

 

[stux]

What do you mean by SSR auctioning? = dam spelling auto correct. action-ing

As there is only one outlet on the board for the elements & I wish to use 2, I have wired them as the YouTube vid, 2 sets of wire out of the socket to their individual SSR's.

I intend to use 2 elements only when getting up to temperature , that being for example a single temp mash 65 or to the boil 100. (2 might be used during the boil depends on unit operation / will one hold a reasonable boil)

This means that with the control panel as is I would need to manually disconnect the socket at the rear of the panel (element or secondary power socket), so if 2 simple low voltage switches were incorporated I could stop the signage getting to either SSR., you would have then full control over which element to use, or stop one of them at anytime during the brew.

Is there anyway of achieving the same thing through the control panel set up or indeed another signal that could be taken off the Arduino unit so that instead of a single out for the elements the unit would have 2 outs? Software adaptation that 2 elements would fire up when getting up to temp only 1 would fire when nearly upto temp or on boil stage. My Arduino knowledge / programming isn't a strong point so am reliant on others.

I am more than happy with the box as it is but would like to tweak a few things to suit my personal preference.

Cheers

Don't really see the point in disconnecting the second element once you get to the boil. The controller will use a PID algorithm right, or at least a duty cycle to maintain the boil.

At a minimum this will mean the pair of elements would work less hard than one solitary element, which can only be good for the wort and the elements? unless you want more malt caramalizing etc

 

[SBOB]

so i forgot to check back on to the thread, and plugged it in..... didnt go bang, and worked. but here is a pic for you to tell me otherwise. i can always cut out the cable btween primary and secondary plugs if need be

Please, unless you are aiming for a Darwin award nomination
-> Disconnect the neutral connection between 'pump' and 'Sec Heat'

You should never join neutrals on potentially different circuits and your board currently has this ability as you could plug your main power and secondary power into different circuits within your house

or you know... don't and see what happens

 

[bungelbear]

Please, unless you are aiming for a Darwin award nomination
-> Disconnect the neutral connection between 'pump' and 'Sec Heat'

You should never join neutrals on potentially different circuits and your board currently has this ability as you could plug your main power and secondary power into different circuits within your house
or you know... don't and see what happens

righto, thank you very much SBOB, getting the clippers out now. I don't know what i was thinking when doing this. appreciate the community help. Merry christmas :kooi:

 

[SBOB]

righto, thank you very much SBOB, getting the clippers out now. I don't know what i was thinking when doing this. appreciate the community help. Merry christmas :kooi:

If you are just cutting the wire make sure it's well isolated/insulated....

 

[zwitter]

Hi Bunglebear

The linking of the neutrals is a bad idea as has been stated. If you live in a house with only one phase and you do not have individual ELCBs / safety switches and if everything is wired up correctly THEN maybe it would all work fine.

BUT the whole reason behind the second power in and out being isolated from the primary is so that you can use 2 phases or different circuits with separate safety switches etc etc.

Not many of us have two 15 or 20 amp circuits nicely positioned for our brew setups. I have some 40a circuits for single phase welders so can run the lot of one circuit but that really is rare.

Better to keep separate just in case you use it somewhere there is multi circuits or phases.

James


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