The Bittering Hop Addition Imparts Flavour?

[Nick JD]

I've recently done 2 extract brews, using exactly the same ingredients, conditions and method, only changing the bittering hop addition to see if I can taste the difference.

I initially thought that all the flavour and aroma went up with the steam, but in changing the bittering hop from Pacific Gem to Nelson Sauvin, the taste of the Nelson Sauvin really comes through.

I thought that it didn't really matter what hop was used for bittering as long as it had a high AA content.

Anyone else noticed this?

 

[brendo]

I've recently done 2 extract brews, using exactly the same ingredients, conditions and method, only changing the bittering hop addition to see if I can taste the difference.

I initially thought that all the flavour and aroma went up with the steam, but in changing the bittering hop from Pacific Gem to Nelson Sauvin, the taste of the Nelson Sauvin really comes through.

I thought that it didn't really matter what hop was used for bittering as long as it had a high AA content.

Anyone else noticed this?

defintely makes a difference - not all bittering hops are created equally - some can be quite harsh, while others can be quite smooth.

Cheers,

Brendo

 

[DKS]

defintely makes a difference - not all bittering hops are created equally - some can be quite harsh, while others can be quite smooth.

Cheers,

Brendo

Ahah! I reckon this could explain why Ive got two kegs of fruit tingle beer after bittering addition of POR. Bugger.
Daz

 

[Fourstar]

If you want a hop to use for bittering and not impart much flavour wise, you need something quite neutral. Horizon is a good one that takes the backseat but gives decent bittering.

 

[T.D.]

Ahah! I reckon this could explain why Ive got two kegs of fruit tingle beer after bittering addition of POR. Bugger.
Daz

Bittering additions certainly can affect the flavour of the beer, but do much less than late additions. Having said that, I've never noticed any significant flavours from bittering with POR.

 

[beersom]

Flavour difference from a bittering addition should be very minimal..... the biggest differnce if the BU's are the same should come from the co-humulone difference.
BTW Nelson Sauvin is my favourite bittering hop - High Alpha and low co-humulone

 

[DKS]

If you want a hop to use for bittering and not impart much flavour wise, you need something quite neutral. Horizon is a good one that takes the backseat but gives decent bittering.

Hi Fourstar,
What is it that makes a bittering hop neutral or otherwise. Is it the Alpha acids, oils or other. What specs do you look for if you want hops to impart more or less flavour if you take boil time out of the equation when comparing one to another?. :icon_cheers:
Daz

 

[Fourstar]

Hi Fourstar,
What is it that makes a bittering hop neutral or otherwise. Is it the Alpha acids, oils or other. What specs do you look for if you want hops to impart more or less flavour if you take boil time out of the equation when comparing one to another?. :icon_cheers:
Daz

A good question that i dont actually know the answer to! Ive always been a fan of Horizon because it was a 'clean' bittering hop. I found out recently Jamil Z Advocates this hop to use if you want to bump up IBU's without imparting allot of upfront hop flavour from your bittering addition. Usually for smoothness, I will look for the cohumulone % to be <35% . I find the bitterness is usually smoother and not as harsh as some high % CH hops. This isnt always true with all hops and some peoples palates.

 

[Sammus]

regarding the POR comments, I asked about bittering with it a while ago now, and it was almost unanimously agreed that you shouldn't bitter more than 20IBU with por...

not sure why, I hope it was sound advice (had about 10 people say it) because I've got some old por pellets I use to bitter up to 20ibu in all my bigger beers (only in big bitter beers, eg I wouldn't use them for a 15ibu addition in a weizen)

 

[Bribie G]

I use POR in my all grain single malt single hop single addition Aussie lagers and have recently gone to Superpride. I do 20g Superpride for a 90 minute boil and the hops are subtle and definitely the flavour is there. Mate brought round some Crownies the other night and we drank them alternating with some home brews and the hops were very similar indeed. If late hopping I would go for Cluster but definitely not POR or SP.

 

[T.D.]

regarding the POR comments, I asked about bittering with it a while ago now, and it was almost unanimously agreed that you shouldn't bitter more than 20IBU with por...

not sure why, I hope it was sound advice (had about 10 people say it) because I've got some old por pellets I use to bitter up to 20ibu in all my bigger beers (only in big bitter beers, eg I wouldn't use them for a 15ibu addition in a weizen)

Hey Sammus,

This is a commonly quoted rule of thumb, but I would be willing to bet that none of the people who actually 'believe' in it actually know either way. I always reckon poor old POR gets a bad wrap, mainly because of these 'rules' that people come up with and worse still people who flat out refuse to touch the stuff. Fact is there are plenty of good commercial beers around (all Coopers and a lot of James Squire beers as a start) which use POR to generate more than 20IBUs and nobody complains about them being harsh etc. I for one have used POR on countless occasions for well over 20IBUs and never come away regretting it. I think its an excellent hop for bittering ales. Possibly even lagers too although I haven't had any experience with this.

I put this POR 20IBU 'rule' in the myth category, never seen any evidence to support it. Thing is, if everybody follows it and doesn't get harsh beers they think its proof its true! Its self-prophecising.

That's my morning rant!

 

[Adamt]

I think the PoR myth is a freshness issue... If you're using old pellets that could be the problem. I've bittered beers to well above 20IBU with fresh PoR flowers, lovely stuff.

*prods Tony*

 

[Tony M]

and have recently gone to Superpride.

I have been using "Pride +" for a lot of ale bittering. Is that the same animal as your "Superpride"?

 

[Bribie G]

I have been using "Pride +" for a lot of ale bittering. Is that the same animal as your "Superpride"?

I've been using these:

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1165

Maybe the pride+ is the same thing produced by a different hopyard to the one Ross sells?

 

[T.D.]

I think the PoR myth is a freshness issue... If you're using old pellets that could be the problem. I've bittered beers to well above 20IBU with fresh PoR flowers, lovely stuff.

*prods Tony*

This could be a valid point. POR is known to lose its freshness fairly quickly. Having said that, I have some in the freezer that I bought from Country Brewer over 12 months ago, and I used them in a recent Aussie Dark Ale and they did the job beautifully!

The freshness certainly makes them a bit questionable for late additions. Fresh POR late is actually pretty darn good, but it has to be fresh. And they were using Superpride flowers in the Wig and Pen Randall not long ago. Clearly a decent late hop if used fresh.

 

[Sammus]

Well mine are far from fresh, I think I'll stick to the 20ibu 'rule' with these - I just cant bring myself to throw them out, so they will all contribute to a small amount of the bittering in my bigger brews. Cheers for the not-often-heard positive spin on POR

 

[pdilley]

I have about 27 IBU POR in my latest APA. I wil let you know if my tongue melts, my eyeballs fall out, and my brain starts bubbling inside my skull in another month and a half. If I remember correctly the human tongue isnt good dfferentiating between bittering levels, 5 IBU incrents? or was it lower around 2-3? If 5 then I should be just noticably more bitter than 20 IBU POR.

I just needed to clear it out so I can start working on clearing out N.Brewer and Goldings stocks in the fridge.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Definitely agree with Adamt & TD.

Freshness is a major key, but also I dare say POR requires some skill on behalf of the brewer. Its about mastering the art of subtlety, you cant throw it around like an APA its rather unforgiving.

Having said that. I have used POR well over 20IBU's and late in the boil, at flame out and even dry hopped with it and its fine!
I think you have to know your brewing system well enough to work within the parameters that some harsher hops like POR have in order to achieve balance.

Don't just use it once an form an instant opinion on it, It can work really well and make excellent beer1

Used Superpride a few times now as well and I must say I like it!

Cheers,
BB

 

[Barry]

Used POR in an Aussie IPA 1.064. 50 IBU) that I brewed yesterday. Only twenty gms in the boil, the rest was Galaxy. See how it turns out.

 

[Swinging Beef]

I think its fair to say everything imparts A flavour.
How much is up to the taster's palate in many instances.
I made a 78IBU IPA entirely of PoR, specifically to be drank by PoR haters, that love IPA.
There was not one complaint.
PoR gets a bad rap because it is in Fosters and xxxx. Whe should also remember it is in other award winning beers as well, tho.