Style Of The Week 21/6/06 - Altbier

[manticle]

Thanks - I've got one of the Grimwoods OTS elements and keen to learn more about using it to full effect.
So if I read it right are these your steps?

1. Strike/ Infusion for a 55 rest (whats your usual liquor to grist ratio?)

2.5 kg per L

1. Raise to 62 with the OTS element

Rest for 10-15 mins

1. Draw off a portion to decoct (what volume for your usual sized mash?)

Roughly a third, mainly grain with just enough liquid to stop it sticking. Bring to the boil slowly, then boil reasonably hard, stirring occasionally

1. Raise the main mash to 67 with the OTS element and rest for 50
2. Heat the first decoction portion and add back to bring to 72

Add slowly and reserve any remainder that is unnecessary if temps hit. use Element to hit temp if you fall short.

1. Draw off another decoction portion

Slightly thinner/more liquid

1. Heat this portion during the 10min 72 rest
2. Add second decoction back to raise to 78 for MO

Done.

The element makes not stressing about temp steps really easy so decoction is mainly for flavour. Need to stir with the element - grain can ocassionally stick and burn but mostly in my experience, if there is enough liquid in the tun, you look after the mash while raising and you dunk it in some clean water between steps, there should be very little, if any at all.

 

[Tilt]

Fantastic- thanks for the detail.
I've just started more complex stepped temp mashes (beyond single infusion rest, infusion mash out) with a protein rest as a result of getting the element.
Enjoying a robust porter with luscious mouthfeel, good attenuation, persistent foam and glorious lacing which I have to put down to more attention and effort during the mash (having not changed anything else in my process).
I had an underwhelming first crack at an Alt last year so keen to give it the stepped/ decocted treatment to see what I can come up with.

 

[Spiesy]

Trying my first Dusseldorf Alt this weekend...

Based on 'Brewing Classic Styles' I'm looking at:

69% Wey Pils
16% Wey Munich I
8% Ding Aromatic
4% Wey CaraMunich II
1.6% Wey Carafa II
1.6% CaraPils
1049 OG BIAB NC - mash @ 65.

Now, I don't have Spalt or Tettnanger... I do have Hallertauer Mittlefruh, so was looking at:

33.2IBU @ 60mins (that's 80g ffs!)
3.1IBU @ 15mins
36.2IBU (not factoring for no chill, prob won't differ too much as the bulk of IBU's are at 60)

1007.

Thoughts?

PS: I don't have any more Munich on me, but I do have more CaraMunich II, Ale, Maris Otter, and medium Crystal.
The only other noble hops I have are EKG, Fuggles and tiny amount of Styrian - shitload of US hops.

 

[manticle]

i'd up the ibu a tad. Hallertau will be fine and styrians work also. Not sure if you need carapils although I'm never sure if anyone needs carapils. Don't know about caramunich either but I think the aromatic will provide good malt toastiness. Have you got more munich I? I'd be looking at 25 -50% of the base coming from that.

 

[Spiesy]

PS: I don't have any more Munich on me

No more Munich.

Thanks for the feedback, Manticle.

Only using CaraPils to add a little body and help with head, as I BIAB. It's only a dash really, 100g.

 

[manticle]

Mash temp for dextrinous mash should give you that.
62 for 15, 68 for 40, 72 for 10.

 

[Spiesy]

Step mashing ain't that easy for BIAB. I know infusions are possible (although this is new to me), and some people add heat and stir, but a little carapils or wheat should do the job as well, yeah?

 

[manticle]

Probably. I don't like shortcuts but that's my issue.

Many biabers have easy access to stepping by brewing in an urn or on a stove or burner. For alt, I like to decoct which gives another avenue for stepping too.
not difficult to do at all.

 

[Spiesy]

Brewing up now... accidentally dropped the 60min addition in at 90!

80g of hops in one hit sure does foam up!

Won't make too much of a difference, I guess; I just scaled back and moved forward the 15g @ 15mins to 6g @ 10mins to compensate.

Looking forward to drinking this badboy. :beerbang:

 

[pat86]

I'm going to have to come back and read this whole thread and the other Alt recipes here! My favourite beer hands-down although I've never seen any outside of Dusseldorf.

Within Dusseldorf we did a bit of a crawl and sampled at least 3-5 of the breweries - my favourite by far was Schumachers and it isn't just because I drank 8 before moving on to the next! Pity we weren't around at the right time to try the special seasonal Alt's although the regular was basically the best thing I have ever drunk in my life.

On my last trip to Germany back 5 years ago, Kolsch became my favourite style (though I kind of dislike 4 pines version... anyone else?) but started getting into dark beers in general and I was pretty much sold after a few days in Dusseldorf. Double whammy since Koln and Ddorf absolutely hate each other.

If anyone has recently come up with a good Kits & Bits recipe for getting close to an alt I would love to know, as it might be quite a while before I get to AG?

 

[Weizguy]

I'm going to have to come back and read this whole thread and the other Alt recipes here! My favourite beer hands-down although I've never seen any outside of Dusseldorf.

Within Dusseldorf we did a bit of a crawl and sampled at least 3-5 of the breweries - my favourite by far was Schumachers and it isn't just because I drank 8 before moving on to the next! Pity we weren't around at the right time to try the special seasonal Alt's although the regular was basically the best thing I have ever drunk in my life.

On my last trip to Germany back 5 years ago, Kolsch became my favourite style (though I kind of dislike 4 pines version... anyone else?) but started getting into dark beers in general and I was pretty much sold after a few days in Dusseldorf. Double whammy since Koln and Ddorf absolutely hate each other.

If anyone has recently come up with a good Kits & Bits recipe for getting close to an alt I would love to know, as it might be quite a while before I get to AG?

Have you seen the Weyermann 4kg malt extract cans? Weyermann Munich Amber is your start point and just follow Batz's Altbier recipe, as he has plenty of good reviews

 

[Weizguy]

Brewing this soon (one or two weeks):

UERIGE ALTered (based on the Wheeler recipe)

46 litre batch predicted o.g. ~ 1.050
Est alc - 5.2%

2.086 kg MEU (Aus) Pilsner
6.27 kg Munich I (Weyermann)
1.1 kg Abbey malt (Weyermann) at MHB's suggestion
0.250 kg Caraaroma



Saaz (Bittering) (T45) 120g @ 90 min to 47 IBU
Saaz plugs (Flavour) 28g @ 10 min to ~1.7 IBU

Brewbrite (5 doses) at 10 min before end of boil
Wyeast 1007 - 5 litre starter

 

[pat86]

Hey Les, how'd this one go?

I haven't used aromatic malt before have you tasted the results yet or is it still too early?

 

[Weizguy]

Sorry, not brewed yet.
Might have to wait until I get the new esky/chiller-mash tun and manifold sorted.

Have a suspicion this could exceed the limits of my current mash tun.

Maybe this weekend or the next. Need to get some session beer back on tap at the Teninch Brewery.

(*edit) Will need to freshen up the W1007 starter too, as it's been sitting too long now

 

[Weizguy]

Hey Les, how'd this one go?

I haven't used aromatic malt before have you tasted the results yet or is it still too early?

Still too early. Brewed on 29/5 and no-chilled in the SS fermentor, Then chilled to 13°C in the fridge and pitched with the 5 litre starter on 4/6.
6 days later - 5.2% alc/vol and almost 80% apparent attenuation. The yeast has still not cleared below the sample port, but I will chill to 0°C (already there, and drop/run off the excess yeast, if it's not compacted.

FWIW, my brew process has improved since the recipe was entered in Beersmith and I got closer to 60 litres of wort than 46.
Gonna be some Alt drinking this year. May be some spare for comps if the colour is right. Still need to make some other haus beers to.
Edit : spelling pedantry and formatting only, on this occasion.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Bringing back the Alt! I like it!

 

[manticle]

A self confessed euromalt snob here but my last was brewed with pils, vienna and munich from Gladfields and was excellent. Possibly my favourite everday kind of beer. Hope to knock another one out next weekend.

 

[Weizguy]

Just tasting a couple of litres of this Alt tonight. Has lagered well , and the fruitiness is coming out, along with maltiness. The bitterness is becoming less broad and a lot cleaner. I'm starting to like this style. Shame I only have about 25 litres left in an old Becks keg.
Time to get back to my beer.

 

[Droopy Brew]

So Im giving an Alt a go tomorrow. I have read through most of this thread to get some ideas and have come up with the following. Would appreciate feedback on the grist, the yeast and mash schedule -am looking to do single infusion at 65C but open to hearing what a step schedule might bring to the table. As much fun as trip decocts are, Im on a time limit with this one so melanoidin is chucked in as a sub.

Alt Bier 1

Method: All Grain
Style: Altbier
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 50 liters [SIZE=.9em](fermentor volume) [/SIZE]
Boil Size: 66 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.039 [SIZE=.9em](recipe based estimate) [/SIZE]
Efficiency: 75% [SIZE=.9em](brew house) [/SIZE]
Source: Cam
​

Original Gravity:
1.052

Final Gravity:
1.011

ABV (standard):
5.43%

IBU (tinseth):
45.18

SRM (morey):
13.88












Fermentables

Amount

Fermentable

PPG

°L

Bill %

6 kg

German - Munich Light

37

6

53.6%

3 kg

German - Pilsner

38

1.6

26.8%

1 kg

German - Vienna

37

4

8.9%

1 kg

German - Melanoidin

37

25

8.9%

0.2 kg

German - Carafa II

32

425

1.8%

11.2 kg

Total








Hops

Amount

Variety

Type

AA

Use

Time

IBU

180 g

Perle

Pellet

4.5

Boil

60 min

45.18


Hops Summary

Amount

Variety

Type

AA

180 g

Perle

Pellet

4.5



Mash Guidelines

Amount

Description

Type

Temp

Time

30.6 L

Mashin

Temperature

65 C

60 min

--

Mashout

Temperature

78 C

10 min

Starting Mash Thickness: 3 L/kg


Yeast

Danstar - Nottingham Ale Yeast



Attenuation (avg):


77%

Flocculation:


High

Optimum Temp:


13.9 - 21.1 °C

Starter:


No

Fermentation Temp:


15 °C

Pitch Rate:


-

 

[Bribie G]

Whoah on that melanoidin. I wouldn't put more than about 300g in there. Sub Vienna for the other 700g.

Interesting that the thread has been revived, I've just bought a couple of sacks of Wey and was thinking of doing one to lager over the Xmas period.

Telepathic.