Style Of The Week 21/6/06 - Altbier

[DJR]

Hi guys,

I'm fairly new to brewing, so if my question doesn't make sense that's why!

Some guys talked about adding oak chips at secondary, how do you prepare the chips and how much do you add? Do you just sanitize them first?

Secondly, with crash chilling how cold and how long? I'll have a search around the forum for crash chilling as I'd like to try it.

Thanks,

Nicko.

I am not sure you'd want to oak an Altbier, but usually people using oak sanitise them by soaking in some spirit first for a day or two.

Crash chilling, 4C or below, put the fermenter in the fridge basically, faster the temperature drop the better usually once the beer has finished fermenting to drop the yeast out of suspension. But sometimes there is a need to cool it down slowly such as in lagers where you might want the yeast to remain in suspension to clean up quicker. It's a complicated topic and there is no one answer

 

[manticle]

I know oaking has been discussed previously because some altbiers are served in germany from wooden barrels. I think it was discussion with NewGuy after his trip to Germany that led me to trying it.

However the one time I tried it, I ended up with a brett infection. Oak chips are hard to sanitise thoroughly. Normally I toast mine but I also normally oak bretty, funky beers.

If I were to do it again, I might soak in starsan first, then soak in boiling water, then toast.

However I would make one without oak first and see if you think it would benefit from oak. My current one has plenty of flavour without.

As for chilling - I whack mine straight in the fridge and leave for 3 weeks minimum. That's using wyeast 1007, primary fermented at 14 degrees and given a small diacetyl rest at 18 before the cold conditioning phase.

 

[Phoney]

Santizing oak chips is easy, just steam them for 10 - 15 mins.

 

[Nicko_Cairns]

okay thanks gents, some good info.

 

[Nicko_Cairns]

I know oaking has been discussed previously because some altbiers are served in germany from wooden barrels. I think it was discussion with NewGuy after his trip to Germany that led me to trying it.

However the one time I tried it, I ended up with a brett infection. Oak chips are hard to sanitise thoroughly. Normally I toast mine but I also normally oak bretty, funky beers.

If I were to do it again, I might soak in starsan first, then soak in boiling water, then toast.

However I would make one without oak first and see if you think it would benefit from oak. My current one has plenty of flavour without.

As for chilling - I whack mine straight in the fridge and leave for 3 weeks minimum. That's using wyeast 1007, primary fermented at 14 degrees and given a small diacetyl rest at 18 before the cold conditioning phase.

so Manticle, three weeks fermenting of two weeks with a week of cold conditioning? thanks.

 

[manticle]

I'm always wary of talking about fermentation in terms of time (conditioning is different).

So ferment until you hit FG, then a week at ale temps (conditioning/diacetyl rest etc), then a week in the cold for most ales. However I give my alts and lagers 3 weeks minimum in the cold (so that's after fermentation has finished).

That's my regime anyway.

 

[Nicko_Cairns]

I'm always wary of talking about fermentation in terms of time (conditioning is different).

So ferment until you hit FG, then a week at ale temps (conditioning/diacetyl rest etc), then a week in the cold for most ales. However I give my alts and lagers 3 weeks minimum in the cold (so that's after fermentation has finished).

That's my regime anyway.

thanks, and then gas them up and serve, or is there additional lagering time?

 

[manticle]

I bottle. Mine are ready to go once carbed but good changes will occur in the bottle given extra time and cold once carbed.

 

[JDW81]

Is there a reason, other than clarity you would cold condition an alt? I only ask as I love the style, but don't have a fridge for cold conditioning?

Would it be a bad idea to brew one without an extensive cold conditioning phase?

 

[manticle]

Melbourne weather is nice and cool so outside on a concrete floor would probably be like a decent cellar temp.

I cc everything for maturation more than clarity - suspended yeast tastes like suspended yeast and there's other crap that drops out too.

There is a historical precedent for lagering/cold conditioning an alt too and I'm a sucker for history.

 

[newguy]

I know oaking has been discussed previously because some altbiers are served in germany from wooden barrels. I think it was discussion with NewGuy after his trip to Germany that led me to trying it.

However the one time I tried it, I ended up with a brett infection. Oak chips are hard to sanitise thoroughly. Normally I toast mine but I also normally oak bretty, funky beers.

If I were to do it again, I might soak in starsan first, then soak in boiling water, then toast.

Yes that was me. Another method of sanitising oak chips is to steam them. I've done it a couple times and I know a few others that have as well. No infection issues as long as the chips are relatively thin and you steam them for at least 5 minutes.

 

[Nicko_Cairns]

I bottle. Mine are ready to go once carbed but good changes will occur in the bottle given extra time and cold once carbed.

Okay thanks mate.

 

[HoochHB]

There is never a time that an Altbier is not on tap at Batz bar,one of my favorites for sure.
It's an easy beer to brew,that maybe because I brew it so often and don't mess with the recipe anymore

Batz

Hey Batz this post is from years ago..Do you still do your altbier?

 

[bradsbrew]

Batz, mind sharing your Alt recipe?

Edit: its in the Recipe DB but not accessable at the moment.

 

[stakka82]

Bump

 

[warra48]

This one's about to come to the boil.

Düsseldorf Alt


2700.0 g Pale Malt, Ale (IMC) (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 53.5 %
2200.0 g Munich, Light (Joe White) (21.0 EBC) Grain 4 43.6 %
100.0 g Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 5 2.0 % 50.0 g Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.5 EBC) Grain 6 1.0 %
60.0 g Smaragd [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 49.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) Yeast slurry from starter culture

Mashed 64ºC for 90 minutes.
Collected 35 litres at 1.039 SG pre-boil.
Should have about 25 litres into the fermenter post 90 minutes boil.

Edit: Damn, another hydrometer busted. That's it, I'm getting a thingymajig, so I only need a few drops. Oh, it's a refractometer.

 

[manticle]

Altbier

Type: All grain Size: 22 liters
Color: 22 HCU (~12 SRM)
Bitterness: 45 IBU
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 5.2% v/v (4.1% w/w)
Grain: 2.5kg Weyerman Pilsner
1.25kg Weyerman Vienna
1.25kg Weyerman Munich
200g Briess victory
75g Simpsons chocolate
Mash: 70% efficiency
TEMP: 55/62/67/72/78
TIME: 5/10/50/10/10

Decoct at 62 and add back to reach 72
Decoct at 67 and add back to reach 78

Boil: 90minutes, SG 1.036, 32 liters
Hops:25g Spalt (5.7% AA, 60 min.)
25g Tettnanger (3.5% AA, 60 min.)
20g Spalt (5.7% AA, 20 min.)
20g Tettnanger (3.5% AA, 20 min.)
10g Spalt (aroma)
10g Tettnanger (aroma)

2g CaCl2 and 2g CaSO4 + phosphoric acid as required for mash pH
2g CaCl2 and CaSO4 to boil.

WYEAST 1007

While I've never tried an alt in Germany, I love brewing it. This one won both bitter ale (entered as a dusseldorf) and amber/dark lager (entered as a North German) at last year's Vicbrew. Its earier incarnation won amber/dark the year before. Comps aside, I just reckon it tastes fantastic and should be knocking another one out in a few weeks.

 

[Tilt]

Altbier


TEMP: 55/62/67/72/78
TIME: 5/10/50/10/10

Decoct at 62 and add back to reach 72
Decoct at 67 and add back to reach 78

This looks a ripper recipe Manticle. Can you expand on your process with your mash temp steps?
How are you raising temps in between the decoction steps?
Cheers

 

[manticle]

I step mash with a grimwood element - I just keep it submerged and stir constantly. Integral part of my brewing equipment but you could infusion mash - just need to get the calcs right or if you BIAB, you can blast with whatever heat source you use to boil.

 

[Tilt]

Thanks - I've got one of the Grimwoods OTS elements and keen to learn more about using it to full effect.
So if I read it right are these your steps?

1. Strike/ Infusion for a 55 rest (whats your usual liquor to grist ratio?)
2. Raise to 62 with the OTS element
3. Draw off a portion to decoct (what volume for your usual sized mash?)
4. Raise the main mash to 67 with the OTS element and rest for 50
5. Heat the first decoction portion and add back to bring to 72
6. Draw off another decoction portion
7. Heat this portion during the 10min 72 rest
8. Add second decoction back to raise to 78 for MO

Edit: typo