Style Of The Week 21/6/06 - Altbier

[beerbrewer76543]

Nice :icon_chickcheers:

 

[drsmurto]

Planning my first alt for the weekend

9kg Grain bill

Munich 70%
Pils 24%
Melanoidin 5%
Carafa II 1%

Spalt @ 60mins to 50 IBUs
Mash low at 64

Either WLP036, WLP029 or WLP011 (depending on what LHBS has in stock).

Any thoughts?
Cheers
Steve

Go for it Steve. :beerbang:

Looks like a very malty Alt and as RK mentioned you could push the IBU up to 60 with that much munich.

I am kegging another Alt tonight, 65% munich and 55 IBU. The last one surprised a few people who didn't pick it as 50 IBU. That was 55% munich.

I've never used any yeast other than WY1007 in an Alt so cant comment on the yeasts. Something that attenuates well, doesn't floc too quickly so it can be lagered but leaves it malty.

Mashing low is perfect. 90 min mash?

 

[jayse]

Not sure which munich your using, i have ben using around 70% weyerman munich II with pilsner malt generally and that is border line overly malty, you wouldn't want the melanoidin malt on top of that so I'd give that a miss personelly or it just gets to much.
You'd even struggle to pick a nice bitterness even at 60 IBU with the beer as is.

 

[Effect]

I'd agree with dropping or lowering the melanoidin malt...5% for me is a bit too much. As far as the bitterness goes, its hard to tell that they are that bitter. Tried all the stammtischer altbiers at Smurto's place, and even though I knew the recipe, I had to be reminded that they were 50 IBU - so pushing it up to 60 I think wouldn't be bad at all, but I would rather save the hops for another alt than doing it 60 IBU as I doubt, for me at least, that difference between 50 and 60 IBU in this style of beer wouldn't be as noticeable than it would in other styles.

 

[Steve]

Thanks chaps

 

[jbirbeck]

I'd agree with dropping or lowering the melanoidin malt...5% for me is a bit too much. As far as the bitterness goes, its hard to tell that they are that bitter. Tried all the stammtischer altbiers at Smurto's place, and even though I knew the recipe, I had to be reminded that they were 50 IBU - so pushing it up to 60 I think wouldn't be bad at all, but I would rather save the hops for another alt than doing it 60 IBU as I doubt, for me at least, that difference between 50 and 60 IBU in this style of beer wouldn't be as noticeable than it would in other styles.

pushing it to 60IBU is about balance...

 

[Steve]

Planning my first alt for the weekend

9kg Grain bill

Munich 70%
Pils 24%
Melanoidin 5%
Carafa II 1%

Spalt @ 60mins to 50 IBUs
Mash low at 64

Either WLP036, WLP029 or WLP011 (depending on what LHBS has in stock).

Any thoughts?
Cheers
Steve

ok.....LHBS ran out of Munich II so subbed it with Vienna. Heres what I have for a double batch

3kg Munich II
3kg Vienna
2kg Pils
500gms Melanoidin
90gms Carafa II

Is this still in the range of an alt and should I adjust the IBU's from 50 due to using Vienna? Will the Carafa II put me in the colour range of an alt?
Im using WLP029 in one ferm and Nottingham dry in another.

Thoughts?
Cheers
Steve

 

[drsmurto]

ok.....LHBS ran out of Munich II so subbed it with Vienna. Heres what I have for a double batch

3kg Munich II
3kg Vienna
2kg Pils
500gms Melanoidin
90gms Carafa II

Is this still in the range of an alt and should I adjust the IBU's from 50 due to using Vienna? Will the Carafa II put me in the colour range of an alt?
Im using WLP029 in one ferm and Nottingham dry in another.

Thoughts?
Cheers
Steve

My calcs put that at the very bottom of the colour range (22 EBC vs 21.7 min according to BJCP) and if it was me then the same again of some choc malt should be fine. But my disclaimer is i like most beers at the upper end of the colour range!

Vienna, to my taste, is every bit as malty as munich so i wouldnt change the IBUs.

 

[Steve]

My calcs put that at the very bottom of the colour range (22 EBC vs 21.7 min according to BJCP) and if it was me then the same again of some choc malt should be fine. But my disclaimer is i like most beers at the upper end of the colour range!

Vienna, to my taste, is every bit as malty as munich so i wouldnt change the IBUs.

Just so happens I have a sample baggy of Simpons Choc malt 1100-1250 EBC from LHBS. 100gms of that do? Cheers fella
Steve

 

[drsmurto]

Just so happens I have a sample baggy of Simpons Choc malt 1100-1250 EBC from LHBS. 100gms of that do? Cheers fella
Steve

Poifect :icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

Knocking an alt out tomorrow based on some of newguy's descriptions and suggestions here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...worst+trip+ever (the whole thread is worth a read but he describes traditional dusseldorf alts in a couple of spots)

Essentially for a final 20 L batch:

4.1 pils (JW)
500 wey munich
500 wey vienna
50 carafa II
50 JW choc

55 tett @ 60
20g tett @ 20
10g tett cube hop.

Protein rest at 55, mash at 63 for 40 mins, ramp to 68 for 20 minutes, mash out, batch sparge.

2g each CaSO4 and CaCl2 to mash and boil.

WY 1007 at 16/17 degrees.

A few oak chips in secondary

Should be around 44 IBU and 1050ish OG at 70% efficiency. Goes against the grain (ha grain ha) of single bittering addition but newguy reckons there's definite flavour hopping and some low aroma in all the varieties he tried.

 

[drew9242]

I'm doing a altbier on monday aswell. Mainly because i tried the altbier from ducksteins and was very impressed. And i have heap of munich to gt rid off.

My goes as follows.

Munich 2 = 93%
Caramunich = 4%
Melanoidin = 2%
Chocolate = 1%

70g Tett at 60min
30g Tett at 45min

Mash at 66 for 60min

Got no German ale yeast, so was going to chuck 1056 in.

 

[Williams]

All Grain Recipe

Grain Bill

6 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt
2 lbs. - Munich Malt
1 lb. - Vienna Malt
1 lb. - Wheat Malt
1 lb. - Crystal Malt (80L)

Hop Schedule (44 IBU)

1.5 oz - Hallertau hops (60 min.)
1 oz - Hallertau hops (30 min.)
1 oz - Hallertau hops (10 min.)
Yeast

White Labs European Ale Yeast (WLP011) - 1800 ml starter
Mash/Sparge/Boil

Mash at 152 to 154 for 60 min.
Sparge as usual
Boil for a total of 90 Minutes
Cool and ferment at 65 to 70

 

[jbirbeck]

Knocking an alt out tomorrow based on some of newguy's descriptions and suggestions here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...worst+trip+ever (the whole thread is worth a read but he describes traditional dusseldorf alts in a couple of spots)

Essentially for a final 20 L batch:

4.1 pils (JW)
500 wey munich
500 wey vienna
50 carafa II
50 JW choc

55 tett @ 60
20g tett @ 20
10g tett cube hop.

Protein rest at 55, mash at 63 for 40 mins, ramp to 68 for 20 minutes, mash out, batch sparge.

2g each CaSO4 and CaCl2 to mash and boil.

WY 1007 at 16/17 degrees.

A few oak chips in secondary

Should be around 44 IBU and 1050ish OG at 70% efficiency. Goes against the grain (ha grain ha) of single bittering addition but newguy reckons there's definite flavour hopping and some low aroma in all the varieties he tried.

probably a touch late but I would have said ferment sub 16 if you want less 1007 esters. I'm not a fan of them myself and they really go nuts even at 17.

FHW for the flavour an aroma...

 

[manticle]

I might knock it down to around 14. Temp control for me is a water bath and ice bricks.

Still in the cube so not too late but definitely too late for FWH

 

[jayse]

Knocking an alt out tomorrow based on some of newguy's descriptions and suggestions here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...worst+trip+ever (the whole thread is worth a read but he describes traditional dusseldorf alts in a couple of spots)

Excellent insights from newguy, that was cool. Today I brewed 55 litres of alt and for the most part it was how I normally would do it but on reading this the other day decided I would do a 1g/L hop addition at 20mins also, as well as the low mash temp I stretched it out to 90mins.
It was a whooping 300g 60min addition, I have found them pretty hard to over do the 60min additions and 60 IBU can often still not come up quite as bitter as you would like, newguy stated they had quite a lot of hop flavour aswell as the bitterness so it seemed to me a good idea to give one a crack with a decent 20min addition.
Malt bill was 70/30 wey munich II and JWM ex pils, about 1.2% jwm choc.
I went with all tettnanger rather then spalt as that is what I had.
European ale yeast.

Can't wait
Cheers
Jayse

 

[manticle]

The above recipe is drinking particularly nicely at the moment. The oak really adds something (home toasted french oak for flavour and pasteurisation). I'm surprised there isn't more tett flavour as even with single bittering additions I get discernible tettnanger flavour but the recipe is definitely a keeper and tweaker. Nice caramel and toffee undertones, dry finish and subtle lingering bitterness.

Just bought the classic beer series book on altbier although nothing will beat actually going to dusseldorf some time and tasting them for myself.

 

[jimi]

I think the ALT would have to take the prize for the most diverse - even all the brew gurus tend to have a different take on this beer.
JZ advocates 60% pils, 15% MunII, 15% Vienna, 5-6% Cryst etc
Jayse & tdh (the guru of all things german - including Rammstien) recommend the reverse ratio of Munich to Pils ala 60% Munich 40% Pils - tdh feels crystal is out of place in a ALT
Ross considers it one of his most successful beers (comp wise) and he's for crystal.
Peoples ideas of balancing the malt to bitterness also varies hugely ..

Anywho I could go on about the diversity of thinking for this style but I'd rather just throw down my ideas and see if someone out there couldn't offer some suggestions. I've only done one ALT previously which came out too heavy and not sessional enough for what I was wanting. Plans are ...

41% PILS
33% MunII
22% Vienna
3% Cararoma
1% Roast Wheat (my pseduo dark cara)

OG 1050
2565 (Kolsch yeast)
NBrewer (yank version) & Hallertaur to IBU 36. NB @ 60 Hal at 30min

So there it is folks - a bit of a hybrid of all the different approaches I've read about - what do you reckon???
This is a brew style I'd really like to nail

 

[jimi]

I think the ALT would have to take the prize for the most diverse - even all the brew gurus tend to have a different take on this beer.
JZ advocates 60% pils, 15% MunII, 15% Vienna, 5-6% Cryst etc
Jayse & tdh (the guru of all things german - including Rammstien) recommend the reverse ratio of Munich to Pils ala 60% Munich 40% Pils - tdh feels crystal is out of place in a ALT
Ross considers it one of his most successful beers (comp wise) and he's for crystal.
Peoples ideas of balancing the malt to bitterness also varies hugely ..

Anywho I could go on about the diversity of thinking for this style but I'd rather just throw down my ideas and see if someone out there couldn't offer some suggestions. I've only done one ALT previously which came out too heavy and not sessional enough for what I was wanting. Plans are ...

41% PILS
33% MunII
22% Vienna
3% Cararoma
1% Roast Wheat (my pseduo dark cara)

OG 1050
2565 (Kolsch yeast)
NBrewer (yank version) & Hallertaur to IBU 36. NB @ 60 Hal at 30min

So there it is folks - a bit of a hybrid of all the different approaches I've read about - what do you reckon???
This is a brew style I'd really like to nail

A bump for the night crowd - I might put this down tomorrow, so I'm keen for the thoughts of others

 

[raven19]

Into the cube tonight, my second Alt.

Mashed at 64.5, and finished with a decoction to add a bit more colour.

The 100 gms of hops soaked up more wort than I anticipated though!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 32.88 L
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 25.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 44.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.05 kg Munich (17.7 EBC) Grain 33.33 %
2.05 kg Munich Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC) Grain 33.33 %
2.05 kg Pilsner (4.0 EBC) Grain 33.33 %
95.00 gm Spalter (2010) [4.10 %] (90 min) Hops 44.5 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
23.00 L 1 Parkside (SA Water - Hope Valley) Water
1 Pkgs Dusseldorf Alt Yeast (White Labs #WLP036) Yeast-Ale