Starting Up A Pub In The Dandenongs (vic)

[Belgrave Brewer]

I am looking into starting a Pub in the Dandenongs serving a wide variety of fine beers, wines and cocktails. Can anyone point me in the direction of companies that do keg/font installations and custom bar construction. I'm hoping a few members of AHB might be in the business or have friends who are. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

The Dandenongs are about an hour east of Melbourne, VIC if this helps.

 

[James Squire]

Hey BB,

Where abouts in the Dandy's are you looking at opening the pub?

JS

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Hey BB,

Where abouts in the Dandy's are you looking at opening the pub?

JS

Hi JS,

Not sure yet. I am looking at property at the moment. Somewhere between Upper Ferntree Gully and Emerald (Upwey, Tecoma, Belgrave, Kallista, Olinda, Emerald area). I want to find the right place but have not seen anything I am interested in yet. Are you from the area?

 

[darkhorse]

Make it in Belgrave!!!

Any positions going for a taster...

Can't help on the other stuff though

 

[bugwan]

On a commerical level, Andale Australia will look after all your dispensing needs here, but I doubt you will get dirt cheap prices. Maybe contact GMK on these forums, he's based in Adelaide but can supply all sorts of great stuff at superb prices. Not sure how much is brand new, but I'm sure he can tell you more.

Good luck with the search, I'm in North Melbourne, so more than a stumble home, but would love to drop in once you're open for a session..., errr taste.

 

[Piste]

I used to live in Kallista and there wasn't much there, Olinda seems to be more of a tourist type area with all the traffic on the Tourist Road, although you may get some opposition from the swill shop (pub).
I think anywhere on the Mt Dandenong tourist road would probably work for you, but have a look and see where most people stop.
Upper FTG is one end of the road, MOntrose could just be another option at the other end.

 

[normell]

Agree with Bugwan, Andale for fitting out your cellar needs.
So how far advanced are ya, permits, licences Etc can be a pain in the butt, will local council/government allow another pub in the area.
Got the banks onside yet, thinking 1 to 1.5 mil for building & carpark, maybe another .5 mil for land, so might be worth your while to get a consultancy mob to do a study to find where would be best to build.

 

[Lukes]

So how far advanced are ya, permits, licences Etc can be a pain in the butt, will local council/government allow another pub in the area.

I am with Norm on this one regarding the council permits. <_<

The mountain is to the point of saturation with the hospitality industry established already up there.
My Father is a retired Gardener and still works for a fair few of these places on the mountain doing odd jobs.

Some are making a killing and some are just keeping their head above water.

The biggest Hurdle you will have is a council permit for the punters beer coming out not going in (toilets) as the mountain is septic tank maxed out
Belgrave or over my side would not be a problem for the toilets but you still have the I dont want another bar in my town mentality. permit war...

I would visit a few of the mountains regarded bars and Sunday Lunch places and get a feed back on how they came to be and is it that viable up there.

If you are going to brew your own and sell it you may do well as I believe the Fed Gov is being hassled to change the law for micros to be on par with wine in regards to tax on less than x amount of ltrs.

SWMBO works as a chef in Olinda and it was so busy up in the Mountains this long weekend just gone that I did not see her for 3 days.. (lucky me more brew time).

Hope this helps

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Thanks for all the advice and leads. I definitely have some homework and have known that for a while. I've been chipping away at it but there is still a lot to do look into. The outward expenditure is where I am at right now and am seeing if it is viable.

I'll let you know if it comes to fruition.

 

[GMK]

Have you considered buying an existing pub and modifying it so taht you can "brew on premises"...

This might be a less expensive and more financially sound option.

I wish you all teh best in this endeavour....

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

I don't plan to brew on premise yet...I've only got 2 home brews under my belt using kits, and I am not overly impressed with them. The plan is to have 4 really good tap beers and about 20 beers in bottle. I'll have cascade and or boags as the starting point and go up from there. No VB or Carlton product. I'd like to focus primarily on Australian beer (with a few imports) and wine and have fine cocktails as well.

 

[PistolPatch]

Hi there Belgrave,

I spent several years working in pubs, mainy with Matilda Bay Brewing Co when they first started. Like restaurants and cafes, pubs are a huge gamble if you want to start one from scratch. You can do everything right and still fail due to some unforeseen thing, mainly location*.

If you want to avoid the gamble then you have to buy an existing pub with a sound financial history. This means buying a pub with a good steady daily trade, not the ones that just have a big Friday or Saturday night. This in turn means you'll be buying a pub with pokies that serves crap beer to, let's just say, non-premium clientelle! There are exceptions to this but then you'll be paying huge money.

I'm sure the above does not appeal to you

You want to start your own pub. In addition to the suggestions above, you will need, in that area to do something different such as a micro-brewery or just getting the ambience spot on. Doing either of these will repel bread and butter clients and leave you reliant on tourist word of mouth. Once again - big risk.

While the capital cost of a micro-brewery is not relatively high at the volumes I'm guessing you'd need in that area, time and labour are. You'd be working all hours to make the show work. You'll make more money with less risk out of making coffee. (That's what the founder of Matilda Bay did!)

Sorry to not offer anything positive but I hate seeing people start a restaurant/cafe or pub and having to close the doors 3 or 6 months later after investing all they own and their dreams.

Matilda Bay started with the help of a wealthy investor (subsequently jailed for tax evasion - lol!). As for the dreams bit, I think all of us here on AHB secretly dream of owning a pub brewery so, as they say, "I like the way you're thinking!"

Cheers
PP

* Another example of something unforeseen was in Perth. I know a very successful owner of pubs there who has been in the game for many years now. He started up a cook your own steak thing in one of his pubs - totaly successful. Did the same thing at another similiar sized pub with same turnover - total failure. The difference? The first was in a higher income suburb. The second was in a low income suburb. People in the low income suburb, if going out for a feed, wanted to be waited on.

[Started writing this about 4 hrs ago but have been side-tracked by a neighbour who has a billion funny stories. He's just gone up to his place to bring back a video of when he was on, 'A Current Affair,' for winning the Gold Lotto which he never actually won! I reckon put my neighbour in your pub! This would be a winner for sure and he's originally from down your way.]

 

[kirem]

I'll have cascade and or boags as the starting point and go up from there. No VB or Carlton product.

Cascade is a carlton product, well fosters anyway. boags is distributed by fosters. A lot of 'premium' imported beer is also distributed by fosters.

Fosters is the largest beverage company in the world, unfortunately you will have a hard time avoiding them. Wait till you try to buy anything in the Australian wine world that isn't fosters.

My 2cents, I would go a brew pub, factor in a contract pro brewer, get someone, even yourself to do the grunt work and learn from the brewer and eventually take over 99% of the brewing.

 

[Randall the Enamel Animal]

factor in a contract pro brewer, get someone, even yourself to do the grunt work and learn from the brewer and eventually take over 99% of the brewing.

Yep, them pro brewers are just hanging around looking for a spot of casual employment....

These days, if you can find a brewer looking for work, you'd have to wonder what was wrong with her/him.

 

[normell]

Chuck maybe available

 

[darkhorse]

I love the idea of my own establishment serving craft beer etc...

I personally would be inclined to model of Grumpy's (maybe even speak to them about a franchise?)

Fine craft beers microbrewed.

Bar and restaurant on site.

Also servicing homebrew supplies on the side (maybe even have a "pilot brewery" service for people who want to have their own beers brewed... I know these ventures are operating in Sydney and Brisbane, but not melbourne that I know of).

May be in a position to seriously look at this in a couple of years ... right now I am just building the dream!

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

I'll have cascade and or boags as the starting point and go up from there. No VB or Carlton product.

Cascade is a carlton product, well fosters anyway. boags is distributed by fosters. A lot of 'premium' imported beer is also distributed by fosters.

Fosters is the largest beverage company in the world, unfortunately you will have a hard time avoiding them. Wait till you try to buy anything in the Australian wine world that isn't fosters.

My 2cents, I would go a brew pub, factor in a contract pro brewer, get someone, even yourself to do the grunt work and learn from the brewer and eventually take over 99% of the brewing.

Yeah...I know this but cascade was once independent and having distribution is a good thing, the point is the beer is drinkable. I can't cut most of the crowd out of the picture before I even open the doors, hehe. It's more of a statement that the place is not an establishment of cheap drinks and as many as you can get in before closing time...there are plenty of places like that around the area. As far as wine, there are a lot of independent wineries in the Yarra Valley that are a stones throw away, even if they have distribution deals with the big boys. The brewing factor will need to be an expansion in a few years when I have a few hundred brews under my belt and the place is doing well.

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Hi there Belgrave,

I spent several years working in pubs, mainy with Matilda Bay Brewing Co when they first started. Like restaurants and cafes, pubs are a huge gamble if you want to start one from scratch. You can do everything right and still fail due to some unforeseen thing, mainly location*.

If you want to avoid the gamble then you have to buy an existing pub with a sound financial history. This means buying a pub with a good steady daily trade, not the ones that just have a big Friday or Saturday night. This in turn means you'll be buying a pub with pokies that serves crap beer to, let's just say, non-premium clientelle! There are exceptions to this but then you'll be paying huge money.

I'm sure the above does not appeal to you

You want to start your own pub. In addition to the suggestions above, you will need, in that area to do something different such as a micro-brewery or just getting the ambience spot on. Doing either of these will repel bread and butter clients and leave you reliant on tourist word of mouth. Once again - big risk.

While the capital cost of a micro-brewery is not relatively high at the volumes I'm guessing you'd need in that area, time and labour are. You'd be working all hours to make the show work. You'll make more money with less risk out of making coffee. (That's what the founder of Matilda Bay did!)

Sorry to not offer anything positive but I hate seeing people start a restaurant/cafe or pub and having to close the doors 3 or 6 months later after investing all they own and their dreams.

Matilda Bay started with the help of a wealthy investor (subsequently jailed for tax evasion - lol!). As for the dreams bit, I think all of us here on AHB secretly dream of owning a pub brewery so, as they say, "I like the way you're thinking!"

Cheers
PP

* Another example of something unforeseen was in Perth. I know a very successful owner of pubs there who has been in the game for many years now. He started up a cook your own steak thing in one of his pubs - totaly successful. Did the same thing at another similiar sized pub with same turnover - total failure. The difference? The first was in a higher income suburb. The second was in a low income suburb. People in the low income suburb, if going out for a feed, wanted to be waited on.

[Started writing this about 4 hrs ago but have been side-tracked by a neighbour who has a billion funny stories. He's just gone up to his place to bring back a video of when he was on, 'A Current Affair,' for winning the Gold Lotto which he never actually won! I reckon put my neighbour in your pub! This would be a winner for sure and he's originally from down your way.]

Thanks for the advice PistolPatch! I'll take it all into consideration.

I was a Bartender and Bar Manager for over a decade in Los Angeles, so have a great deal of experience in the industry although things are a bit different here, even more so in the outer suburbs. I've been living in the area for a few years and have seen what is going on, what I think will work and what will not. Even with the best intentions, atmosphere and the like, it's a gamble but I'm willing to take it. Better to give it a go then to always kick myself for not trying. Anyway, I've done pretty well for myself in the Web Development World and should not have a problem finding work if it all goes south. Wish me luck, and I'll let you know if it happens, where the place will be, and will expect a visit from you if you're in the area. Cheers!