Starter For Hefe Weissbier

[Dazza_devil]

G'day Brewers,
I took my sample of 3638 out of the fridge where it has been happily sitting for 8 months.
It was taken from a 1 litre starter built from a fresh smack pack and settled out to around 1 cm of slurry in the bottom of a stubby of beer.
I gave it 250ml of 1.040 wort 3 days ago and it now awaits my next action. Smells delicious and appears very healthy by the way.
This starter will be going into a 1.045 Hefe Weissbier at high-krausen after a feed of the batch wort while my wort is cooling to pitching temp. I'll be fermenting @ 18 degrees C.
My question is this,
I have 248g of LDME left in the cupboard and the way I see it I have two options,
1. Pitch the 250 ml starter into around 2.5 litres of 1.040 wort using the remaining LDME. Ferment out, cold crash, decant then following the batch feed/pitching procedure.
2. Make up a 1 litre starter using 100g of the remaining LDME. Pitch the 250ml starter into this, ferment it out, cold crash then decant off the beer. Buy some more LDME and pitch the slurry into a 2.5 litre starter. Ferment this out, cold crash, decant and follow the batch feed/pitching procedure.

What's the best option?
I'm in no hurry so I just want the best outcome for my brew.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Which option will produce the most yeast cells?

 

[unrealeous]

Which option will produce the most yeast cells?

In both methods you are making a 2.5 litre starter so essentially you should end with with a comparable amounts of yeast - so the question really is - is it better to step up 250 mls to 2.5ltre in two steps rather than 1... I'd probably do it in two - make a liter of 1040 with your 100 grams, ferment a day - then add that directly to another 1.5 litres with the remaining 148 grams - I don't cold crash between steps either, I only do this at the last stage before adding the yeast to the main wort.

 

[Dazza_devil]

In both methods you are making a 2.5 litre starter so essentially you should end with with a comparable amounts of yeast - so the question really is - is it better to step up 250 mls to 2.5ltre in two steps rather than 1... I'd probably do it in two - make a liter of 1040 with your 100 grams, ferment a day - then add that directly to another 1.5 litres with the remaining 148 grams - I don't cold crash between steps either, I only do this at the last stage before adding the yeast to the main wort.

Yeah that probably would have been the better option but it's done now.
I have a 2.5 litre starter almost cooled to 22 degrees C as I type. I reckon I'll have enough yeast if I keep agitating during the growth phase. Fingers crossed, I don't want any rotten eggs with this one.

 

[unrealeous]

Yeah that probably would have been the better option but it's done now.
I have a 2.5 litre starter almost cooled to 22 degrees C as I type. I reckon I'll have enough yeast if I keep agitating during the growth phase. Fingers crossed, I don't want any rotten eggs with this one.

I'm sure it will be fine.

I just spent 3-4 days stepping up some WPL300 from a slant to a 2 litre starter - however overnight it had foamed the aluminum foil right off the flask and was all over my stir plate and bench... bugger. I've just started the whole process off again this morning.

 

[jakub76]

It was taken from a 1 litre starter built from a fresh smack pack and settled out to around 1 cm of slurry in the bottom of a stubby of beer.

If you've already got the equivalent yeast count from a 1 litre starter then I reckon you've got plenty for a 25L batch. 2nd last Hefe that I made I pitched a 4th generation 3068 yeast that had settled to about 8mm in the base of a 500ml jar. I did start it off on 500ml of boiled and cooled first runnings to get it active but there was plenty of yeast there to quickly form a wicked froth and try to escape the fermenter out the blow-off tube.

The beer turned out alright, some slight astringency from multiple decoctions plus little head retention from too long an acid rest but it did pretty well in the ESB Challenge comp and was pretty popular at my place.

 

[Dazza_devil]

If you've already got the equivalent yeast count from a 1 litre starter then I reckon you've got plenty for a 25L batch. 2nd last Hefe that I made I pitched a 4th generation 3068 yeast that had settled to about 8mm in the base of a 500ml jar. I did start it off on 500ml of boiled and cooled first runnings to get it active but there was plenty of yeast there to quickly form a wicked froth and try to escape the fermenter out the blow-off tube.

The beer turned out alright, some slight astringency from multiple decoctions plus little head retention from too long an acid rest but it did pretty well in the ESB Challenge comp and was pretty popular at my place.

It wasn't the complete slurry from a 1 litre starter built off the original smack pack. I filled 3 stubbies with the starter beer after swirling it up, what was left was built up for a brew at the time. About 1 cm of slurry settled in each stubby over time in the fridge.
Time to agitate, damn that 250ml starter smelled good.

 

[Weizguy]

I have read and believe that subsequent pitches when building a starter should be tenfold.

So, 250ml into 2.5 litres is a fair thing.

How big a wort are you brewing? 2.5 litres could be a bit excessive for a 5 gallon batch, and I usually pitch about 1.5 litres into my weizens, at 25 litre batch size.

 

[Dazza_devil]

22 litres @ 1.045 but I don't have a stir plate.

 

[Banshee]

I would add some of the wort to the yeast to get it going and pitch that into the fermenter. You only need to add another 750ml max. Save your malt for latter.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I would add some of the wort to the yeast to get it going and pitch that into the fermenter. You only need to add another 750ml max. Save your malt for latter.

I will, next week when I make the wort.
My starter will be fermented out and nicely settled after a cold-crash by then.

 

[Weizguy]

22 litres @ 1.045 but I don't have a stir plate.

Nor do I.

I use PET drink bottles. 250ml, 1.25 l and 2 litre. Shaken, not stirred. lol

 

[Dazza_devil]

She's in the fermenting phase now and smelling even more delicious than ever.
My primary sample had been sitting in the fridge for 8 months but it doesn't look to have affected the viability of the yeast.
I reckon she'll be a goer, doubtful of an overpitch.