So This Is Christmas

[bradsbrew]

Personally, I think that Monty Pythons Life of Brian is so far the closest factual biography of Jesus.


As a documentry, it is scarely tru and real...

And ' Always look on the bright side of life" is the best way to sum it up...

Good one Stu I will be whistling that tune all day now :huh:

 

[Jase71]

Oh look, Stagga's communicated his thoughts with another picture! Bravo. I do enjoy your style so.

Hi Jase,

It funny that some Christians actually have a similar attitude to Christmas as many posted here (i.e. its all a heap of crap).

An issue to many Christians parents is what to do about Santa - I thought you might find the following article from the Sydney Anglican website helpful to understand the thoughts that some 'devout' Christians think about Christmas:

Is Santa Homeless?

David

Phonos, you raise a very good article, and one that I consider often. A christian who refuses to buy into the santa myth is in fact more true to the concept of christmas that non (or dormant) believers who go through the motions.

It was mentioned earlier that it's part of our culture... Let's keep in mind that the white man's Australia was formed by brute force only 220 years ago, (yes, this is fact, not kooky leftwing rhetoric) and compared to other historical movements that we study, it's not a very long time at all. Therefore Christmas is only a recent introduction, hardly something that can be idenified as a cultural aspect of this land. Add to that a steady stream of legitimate immigration over the past 50 years (ie 1/4 of the timeframe of this new heritage people claim) where non-christian Asian & Middle Eastern influences are now reshaping this country's identity (legally, and without force), then we need to ask ourselves if christmas is really identifiable with Australia at all. Roast lunch & fake snow ina hot, subtropical environmemt? Gimme a break.

So what is it to identify oneself as "Australian"..... those young lebanese muslim boys we read about in the mainstream media who get into fights, stab, shoot & rape etc, you know what.... most of them are born right here, therefore are they not as Australian as the rest of us ? The racists among you will balk at that, but it's the truth. A multicultural background is the very basis of the new face of Australia, and with that comes a new charachter to our society, and not always adhering to a fading christian idealism. Bloodlines for many older 'aussies' might be Irish, English, German, Italian etc etc, so what makes this element any more superior than a born national with a family history from Syria, China or India........

 

[staggalee]

"You people ! Stop!! Stop shaking your heads and walking away. It`s all true I tell you......"

:lol:

stagga.

 

[Gerard_M]

When it comes to the religion part I have my own beliefs so I won't bore you with that.
I always like the radio news joke "police in Sydney's south-western suburbs are looking for a man of middle-eastern appearance, approx 30-35 years of age. So too are a few billion Christians!"

EDIT: I should throw in however that Christmas will become more of a big deal here over the next few years, with 'little miss' now seeing her second one, and her love of presents, I can detect a hint of my donig my mother's trick of walking through the house with big boots on and sprinkling talcum powder around my feet to show where santas been....

So Pollux we can safely say "ya Mum wears army boots!" or in this case large boots. Thanks for the idea, I will try to work the boots & talcum powder into my usual routine of drinking the beers & eating the treats we leave out for Santa, might even knock the empty chip bowl on the floor this year. The amount of destruction caused by the reindeers is fun to. Hoof marks in the lawn, trample on some plants, chew some flowers etc could replace the half eaten carrots that Rudulf & his mates left on the driveway last year. Got a good reaction though.
Cheers
Gerard

 

[matti]

So what is it to identify oneself as "Australian"..... those young lebanese muslim boys we read about in the mainstream media who get into fights, stab, shoot & rape etc, you know what.... most of them are born right here, therefore are they not as Australian as the rest of us ? The racists among you will balk at that, but it's the truth. A multicultural background is the very basis of the new face of Australia, and with that comes a new charachter to our society, and not always adhering to a fading christian idealism. Bloodlines for many older 'aussies' might be Irish, English, German, Italian etc etc, so what makes this element any more superior than a born national with a family history from Syria, China or India........

Majority rules, right?

So if the majority jumps off the cliff the minority follows?

I didn't think so.

Now X-mas is a religious holiday by decree of the Anglican catholic heritage in Australia.

An Australian is a person who is either born her or adopted Australia as its home country and refugees that hasn;t got an option of going "home".

We are all ruled by the same laws that is based on the "10 commandements".
Wether they were written by God on a stone for Moses or they were made by a man they make sense and you should abide by them.

Stepping down from my milk crate now and I don't recall it saying anything about having a drink.

Beer a holiday yeeerhah

 

[Brewer_010]

"Christmas" was a pagan tradition before being stolen by the Christians to dominate and destroy the pagan rituals wasnt it (same as easter)? h34r:

But be that as it may, Christmas is a chance to get as many people together as possible, share your company food presents etc, and enjoy a day. Now I've got kids it's fun to watch them go nuts for hours and OD on excitement.

No religion touches this house though, it's more a societal thing for me.

Good luck to you if you don't celebrate it, but make the most of what you do IMO.

 

[PostModern]

Christmas, as others have pointed out, was shifted onto it's current date because it coincided with a pagan festival of the shortest day. As Christianity spread into Europe, they piggy-backed their holidays onto the pagan ones for a couple of reasons. Mostly, it meant that converts would not lose their holidays, so they were more inclined to sign up. Where my family originated, the crusaders gave the people a surname and white shirt when they became Christian, so conversion was very popular. We still celebrate Xmas at sunset (well, about 6pm) on 24/12. Like Christmas, Kucios was an Eastern European pagan festival. I see no reason not to celebrate with the kids, as it gives them a cultural root, without them having to believe the fairytale of Jeebus.

Being a pastafarian household, we celebrate all kinds of things. We also celebrate Easter (a spring festival in the Northern hemisphere, an occasion to eat chocolate to put on some insulation for Winter here), Diwali (the Hindu festival of lights), Talk Like a Pirate Day and, starting next year, Towel Day in honour of Douglas Adams. In a multicultural society, there is no need not to celebrate all these festivals and really suck the marrow out of life.

 

[newguy]

EDIT: I should throw in however that Christmas will become more of a big deal here over the next few years, with 'little miss' now seeing her second one, and her love of presents, I can detect a hint of my donig my mother's trick of walking through the house with big boots on and sprinkling talcum powder around my feet to show where santas been....

A few years ago I sprinkled some chocolate covered raisins on the front lawn and "accidentally" happened upon them with the kids xmas morning. When they asked what they were I told them they must be reindeer poop. Watching them tell all their aunts and uncles that they found reindeer poop was quite funny. The oldest one even told her kindergarten teacher. That was an interesting conversation.

 

[browndog]

I could not call myself a religious person (but I believe there has got to be more to life than the 70 odd yrs we get to spend on this rock) but my wife is and we will go to church on xmas morning and I will enjoy the sermon. Then when we got home, it's all about the kids, I'll cook a huge xmas lunch and get 1/2 tanked in the process. I'll ring my mum and dad, my sisters and brother and celebrate goodwill to all. As others have said, xmas is so commercialised now, it is easy to see why people are turned off it.


Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to All

Browndog

 

[Jase71]

Moving this thread was probably appropriate

Took me a while to figure out the "pastafarian" bit - I came up with one of two options - firstly that you or your wife were of indian family (hence the Diwali) or that you're an Italian pot-smoker. BUt then the penny dropped, and I reckecked your signature to confirm your FSM-Devotee staus

I admit that it's a huge stretch to take christmas away from the kids who grow up here, especially since they are surrounded by other kids who are enjoying it. But Post Modern's take on the whole thing is fantastic. Imagine, if you will, celebrating all the major religious events equally to give kids a more empowering view on the bigger picture. Take your pick:

Islam - fast for a day, then kill a chicken for dinner.
Jainism - no bath-time few days to preserve all living creatures, including bodily bacteria
Hinduism - re-enact the Kumba Mehla pilgrimage by walking barefoot and naked to the local indian restaurant
Seikhism - wear a turban on you head with a small knife in it
Chinese New Yearism - run around the house dressed like dancing dragons.
Jewism - open a bank account (sorry, I dont really know what Jewish people do)

Obviously not a suggestion for the christians, who do have a bona-fide reason to recognise christmas exclusively, although it wouldn't hurt anyway. I think that old storybook of yours suggests that your central god character created all people, not just one faith, right..........

 

[PostModern]

We don't celebrate all festivals of all religions, just the ones we like About every second year we'll take the kids to Chinatown in Sydney for Chinese New Year and explain the reasons for their noise and colours and whatnot. It's eye-opening for them. With the western world's culture becoming increasingly diluted by Hollywood, I think it's important for them to know of the rich cultures of other nations as well, and learn a little bit about them. Christmas is when we tell them about the traditions and beliefs of Christians, otherwise they'd never know.

Australia is a great melting pot. My family brought our herrings, vodka and potato pancakes to this land, other countries bring their foods and traditions with them too. It's fun to cherry pick your favourite bits from all cultures and enjoy them. Not because we believe in Jah, Allah, Jehova, Buddha, FSM, etc, but because the traditions of simpler times are interesting, to participate in as much as to observe anthropologically.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I always thought that Christmas was created by the ancient Gods of Harvey Norman and Westfields

Am I wrong on this....

 

[Jase71]

We don't celebrate all festivals of all religions, just the ones we like About every second year we'll take the kids to Chinatown in Sydney for Chinese New Year and explain the reasons for their noise and colours and whatnot. It's eye-opening for them. With the western world's culture becoming increasingly diluted by Hollywood, I think it's important for them to know of the rich cultures of other nations as well, and learn a little bit about them. Christmas is when we tell them about the traditions and beliefs of Christians, otherwise they'd never know.

Australia is a great melting pot. My family brought our herrings, vodka and potato pancakes to this land, other countries bring their foods and traditions with them too. It's fun to cherry pick your favourite bits from all cultures and enjoy them. Not because we believe in Jah, Allah, Jehova, Buddha, FSM, etc, but because the traditions of simpler times are interesting, to participate in as much as to observe anthropologically.

You sound like great parents. I don't suppose you're looking to adopt a badly-behaved 37 year old ?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

With the western world's culture becoming increasingly diluted by Hollywood, I think it's important for them to know of the rich cultures of other nations as well


Bloody Americans have a lot to answer for...


Unfortunatly it seems for the Americans, it is America and those other people that dont live in America

Give me a Microsoft powered Coca Cola Big Mac please....I am feeling like I need curing from my present lifestyle...

I am so happy that my heritage is Welsh,Danish & Scottish, and grew up in a migrant Italian area and got to work with Muslims, have a Russian aunt and my cousin became a Buddist monk...true actually


Pass me the cream....

 

[Tim F]

it dawned on me that to participate in a ritual that has it's basis in a concept that I consider fraudulent (ie christianity, and all its branching schisms), I would therefore be untrue to my personal belief structure if I were to participate in the myth.

I'm pretty much a militant atheist and I don't celebrate any religious activities this time of year but I enjoy it as as much as anyone else regardless. There is time off work, everyone is in a good mood, and more willing to be social and nice to each other, I give nice things to my family and friends and they give nice things to me. I couldn't care less if everyone else is happy and nice because they believe in some ridiculous myth or if they just do it out of habit or they get caught up in the hype or whatever - I just make the most of it! It's well and good to have principles but sometimes it's better to make the most of life and enjoy yourself instead of trying to prove a point to everyone. LTFU

 

[Fermented]

We don't celebrate all festivals of all religions, just the ones we like

It's a lot the same in this household. I'm a Anglo-Euro/Dutch-Indonesian mongrel and the missus is Chinese, so we make the usual 'Aussie'/Anglo-European observances as well as the Chinese ones. Both of us are still educating one another about both as time goes by (already five years or so, but who is counting? ). It's nice to have Christmas, New Year, Australia Day and then Chinese New Year so close together... nearly six weeks of downtime all told most years.

It's a very mixed bag here: in some rooms there are Buddhist and feng shui items, in others crucifixes (sp?) from my ancestors' coffins. It's just what happens when core beliefs combine and traditions that have personal and emotional meaning come together and are mutually respected.

Cheers - Fermented.

EDIT: Left something out.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

It's a very mixed bag here: in some rooms there are Buddhist and feng shui items, in others crucifixes (sp?) from my ancestors' coffins. It's just what happens when core beliefs combine and traditions that have personal and emotional meaning come together and are mutually respected.



Mate, thats Aussie...

To some people Christmas is a ritual, others it is a day, and some it is a date on a calender...

 

[PostModern]

You sound like great parents. I don't suppose you're looking to adopt a badly-behaved 37 year old ?

No kit brewers in this house

How do you feel about multinational corporatisation? Curious to know if you actively boycott corporations? We adamantly refused to buy any Nestle products for about 5-6 years after the free formula debacle. Which is really hard now, seeing they own 30% of the world's food companies.

 

[Jase71]

No kit brewers in this house

I can change, Father, I can change.

How do you feel about multinational corporatisation? Curious to know if you actively boycott corporations? We adamantly refused to buy any Nestle products for about 5-6 years after the free formula debacle. Which is really hard now, seeing they own 30% of the world's food companies.

As a matter of fact I do, and it extends to the point where I wont even work for one. But in this advent of 'modernisation' it is very difficult to completely avoid buying goods owned by the top four FMCG companies in the world such as Nestle, Campbells etc) unless you take some huge steps to do so (think toothpaste, Microsoft, Vegemite). IMO if you want meat you go to the butcher, the bakery for bread, the fruit shop for fruit.

Unusual off-topic question - is this going towards determining my overall psychological profile ?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Unusual off-topic question - is this going towards determining my overall psychological profile ? tongue.gif

Yes...most definatley...