So This Is Christmas

[jonocarroll]

I am sure that there is contradictory evidence for what you do in your brewery and yet because it works for you, it still happens that way. People are the same about their faith. LET THEM BE.

The question from Jase was not whether or not a "higher power" existed or if faith was to be believed it was asking what you see christmas to be. If he wanted an outright debate as to the existance of a God then he would have said who believes.

Oh, I just want to stand back and laugh. But no, you've gone and misrepresented me, so I've got to join in. I never said anything about the OP from Jase. I never invited discussion on these topics you mention. I did however note the trend that all forums end up having - someone posted something that people could reply to with a religious debate, and they did. It goes back and forth, and shock horror, just like the discussion that every pub for thousands of years has seen, nothing will come of it but someone going too far and someone getting offended. Wait for it.

All I did was post a picture pointing out the above fact, and another along the lines of where the thread was going.

I consider myself to be a reasonably fair person - check through my posts, I don't think I ever claim something as fact unless I can thoroughly back it up. To say that I have somehow done the opposite of 'let them be' is an insult to me. 'let them be' is more or less how I live, and why I don't bother putting my 2c into religious debate unless I know the person on the other end is there just for that too. All too often it's someone who 'knows' their opinion is the be-all and end-all. This comes from both sides mind you.

As a scientist, I promote discussion. Unless of course it's bound to end up with 'nuh-uh' 'yuh-huh' 'nuh-uh' bickering.

If people really want my opinion - I celebrate xmas the way that the majority of anglo-aussies do. Presents, lunch, dinner, food, drink, meeting up with family for once, and in general, a lot of tradition. I don't see a need for me to ever push my religious beliefs on anyone, so I tend to go with the flow. I've always bowed my head when my dad said grace. I've put an angel or a star at the top of my tree every year. Most years I'll wake up well after others would have returned from church.

I really don't see why some people tend to push the interpretation of xmas so hard - how many features of society have roots in things that we don't necessarily think about any more? Do people celebrate New Year? It's a celebration of an arbitrary point in our orbit around the sun FFS! I don't see people boycotting that because we changed to the Gregorian Calendar (hey - Muslims keep to the Islamic calendar and Eid ul-Fitr moves every year!)

Each to their own I say. If you've got a reason for doing something, great. Do that. Just don't argue over whether or not other people should do the same.

/rant.

Oh, and for the record, I'm stone-cold sober. So none of this is the brew talking - anyone want to preface their comments?

 

[Jase71]

Jayse, I see you don't 'celebrate' christmas so I am just a little curious to know what you do while a lot of folk around the place are getting into the spirit (or spirits). Must be a little difficult to carry on as though it were a normal day? Not a smartarse question - though a bit vague.

Not taken as such (ie smartarse), and a good question to stimulate the subject of the thread. In the past, that which I can only comment on because this year's christmas is not yet upon us, I would enjoy the peace of a lazy day, find a nice little favourite restaurant to have a late lunch in... the past few years I have lived near an area that has a sri lankan joint, also a couple of indian places that are open, and also with a bit of a travel I can go to my favourite lebanese cafe in Lakemba. But you are right in your speculation that it's difficult - while I have several friends that are almost as passionate about their *antichrist ideals, they still feel obliged to spend it with their mum/family etc. Fortunatly I am now with a partner who shares the same absolute disdain for the day, so we're looking forward to doing some diving on Thursday, then probably go to somewhere and have a great culinary feast, then back here to get drunk and pull out the musical instruments (perhaps we can try and record "Kumbaya My Lord") with the only obligation being that we have tickets to a gig on the evening of the 26th at the Gaelic Club, which will end at sunrise!)

Pop gets out the trumpet, Uncle Ab brought his sax, and what d'ya know nan has a new amp for her keyboard.

Maybe we should come over to yours for a jam! Nan can show me a few chords & my missus can bring her sax over for a jam with Uncle Ab

.........sorrry got a bit carried away.

Not at all, mate. Thus far, I'm not taking offence to anyone's statements (ok, almost anyone's...)

 

[Jase71]

Here have been so many posts in the time it took me to write that last big one, and I didn't even see tourists earlier comment about me being gay. That's so STOOPID, to assume my sexual preferences on what I have offered. Whether I'm straight or gay has no relevance to this discussion whatsoever, and it's an extremely naive comment to make in lieu of you actually offering anything to the round table. For the record, Tourist, you handsome devil, I am straight. And I seriously doubt you would be such a smartarse if you were talking to me face to face in a pub.

Thank you to the many other posters who appreciate a discussion of this nature, for whether we agree or not, it certainly stimulates the mind, and also makes a lot of people think about aspects of christmas that may have otherwise not been considered. I'm not sitting here on my throne telling people that they are crazy hypocritical bastards because they celebrate a religious festival without believing in the modern interpretation of the event - I am stating why I don't follow it.

The overwhelming concensus thus far is that christmas is enjoyed for family soiree's & a well deserved time off work. And that's brilliant - it goes to show how far that we, as a contemporary example of our species, have developed. I'm looking forward to the break as much as everyone else.

This is NOT the place for anyone to start ripping into each other, lest it contravene the basic rules (perhaps unstated, but 'in the spirit' of the forum).

I still think chrismas is humbug

 

[newguy]

To me, xmas is just another day. I was raised christian but I renounced that around 20 years ago. I didn't celebrate xmas or do anything special at all until I had kids. I still don't believe in any of it, but I certainly don't want to punish my kids for my beliefs. So we have a tree and presents.

 

[clean brewer]

Yes well, as I am in the Restaurant Industry(for 15years now), this time of the Year is by far, the most busiest for myself and dont really get the opportunity to get into the Festivities too much that everyone else seems to be doing..

Sure, these days, with 2 little ones, I refuse to work on that day and its probably the most cherished day for myself seeing the littlies all excited about there presents, and santa, and swimming in the pool etc as I miss out on alot of different things during the year that are also important due to work commitments..

Coming from a low-income family and having worked very hard since young, my gripe with Xmas these days is the Commercialisation of it all.. Seems to be about how much you can spend, what people want, what people want to get, how much do we spend on each other/the kids etc etc.. My Birthday has much more importance to me than Xmas day, my birthday is the day I was born, we/us/you should celebrate that more than anything else..

If there is one thing I could wish for on Xmas Day, that would be for my whole immediate family(uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, cousins etc) to be able to come together as a whole, put there differences aside and celebrate togetherness like when I was younger..

Really, im just dirty on the people that are having time off from the 19th Dec until 6th Jan, if I was in there situation/business/industry, Id probably have a different view on the festive season due to being able to have time to do what alot of others do??

Anyhow, thats my take on it.. :beer:

 

[Jase71]

To me, xmas is just another day. I was raised christian but I renounced that around 20 years ago. I didn't celebrate xmas or do anything special at all until I had kids. I still don't believe in any of it, but I certainly don't want to punish my kids for my beliefs. So we have a tree and presents.

Would not the true punishment be that you are perpetrating a myth that you believe to be untrue, one that you yourself you not subscribe to?

 

[newguy]

Would not the true punishment be that you are perpetrating a myth that you believe to be untrue, one that you yourself you not subscribe to?

Believe me, I've struggled with it. <_< If it was up to me there'd be no tree and no celebration at all, but the wife really fought to bring them in for the kids. She's not religious either - but it's somehow important to her. I had to concede. After all, it's just one day.

In marriage, some things just aren't worth fighting over. B)

 

[trevc]

What does christmas mean to those who simply do not believe in christianity at all ?

I don't believe in god, christmas, unicorns, etc. However, if Christmas brings people together to be happy and celebrate, I'm all for it. Cheers

 

[wyatt_girth]

I don't believe in god, christmas, unicorns, etc. However, if Christmas brings people together to be happy and celebrate, I'm all for it. Cheers

You don't believe in unicorns?? pffft that is just weird.

 

[Dave86]

To me, christmas is one of those rare magical days that happens only 2-3 times per year where I can have a beer with breakfast and no-one looks at me funny

In all seriousness, I'll throw my hat in the 'like this thread' basket. It's good to see people actually thinking about what christmas means and not just accepting 'the norm' I will say though, ours is a pretty standard affair, family, friends, too much food, booze and good times.

I can see jayse's point about not promoting a festival you have no belief in, but to me it is a definate cultural holiday, rather than a religous one. We don't have a tree, decorations or lights, we usually do the present thing, but some of the presents are usually donations to various charities, etc. and most of the rest are things we need (my old man is always pleased with more "socks, snots and grots"!) or reccurring jokes (my mum still buys me a phantom diary every year, which I never use).

I learnt early on the importance of family and to seize the opportunities you are given to catch up for whatever reason, so I make the most of them when they come around. The public holiday is in place now and I would rail against having it taken away because the nation has become disenchanted with christmas. (I'd give my left nut to not have to hear anymore christmas carols though!)

Enjoy your time off, however you spend it

Dave

Edit: I am a firm believer however, in the principle that there is an exponential decrease in IQ related to how insulting you find being called homosexual.

 

[Batz]

Believe me, I've struggled with it. <_< If it was up to me there'd be no tree and no celebration at all, but the wife really fought to bring them in for the kids. She's not religious either - but it's somehow important to her. I had to concede. After all, it's just one day.

In marriage, some things just aren't worth fighting over. B)

Batz :lol: :lol:

 

[KHB]

Yes well, as I am in the Restaurant Industry(for 15years now), this time of the Year is by far, the most busiest for myself and dont really get the opportunity to get into the Festivities too much that everyone else seems to be doing.

Really, im just dirty on the people that are having time off from the 19th Dec until 6th Jan, if I was in there situation/business/industry, Id probably have a different view on the festive season due to being able to have time to do what alot of others do??

Anyhow, thats my take on it.. :beer:

I have the same view here, i have been a chef for 9 years now and christmas to me is just another day i have to work. It is our busiest time of the year so i cant really get into it. Saying this i now have 2 little girls so geting a new job is priority one.

Well off to work today with 250 people booked in for dinner.

Merry x-mas


KHB

 

[Screwtop]

Replies to this thread kinda reminded me of the Anthology version of the Lennon/McCartney song Let It Be when John asks "are we supposed to giggle during the solo" :lol:



A Happy and peacefull whatever it means to you all (Imagine)

Screwy

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Personally, I think that Monty Pythons Life of Brian is so far the closest factual biography of Jesus.


As a documentry, it is scarely tru and real...

And ' Always look on the bright side of life" is the best way to sum it up...

 

[Fermented]

Good thread and plenty of the expected responses. Good onya Jayse.

Here's my $0.02:

• What does christmas mean to you ?
  • End of the business year, time to eat with friends in the comfort of knowing that there are a few days off.
  • I run "Orphans' Christmas" almost every year for those of my friends who don't have family here, who don't have family or have disconnected from their family. I would rather spend the day with friends who I care about rather than thinly veiling my distaste for some others. I couldn't stand Christmas with my ex-wife's family (more than ten years ago) - it was something to endure not to enjoy - so I ate like a horse, drank like a fish and found a spot in the front parlour to curl up and sleep it off until everyone else was done and it was time to go. Their pretense of 'happy family' and knowing the truth about most of them and their aggregious misdeeds to each other was more than I could stomach on a good day, let alone Christmas.
  • Family is largely irrelevant to me as the generation above us is persona non grata for what she did (not going into it, don't ask) to far too many and the older generations are dead and my siblings (all half siblings) got into my bad books by squabbling like thieves over a Will - all so close and matey, after a slience of more than twenty years, before I ordered the final distribution of funds, and not heard from since.
  • The false bonhomie of commercial colleagues, and in years gone past my co-workers, and the near psychopathic commercialism and consumerism also hold distaste for me.
  • That said, when the time comes that I have children, I want to let them have that joy and the short-lived belief in the fairy stories surrounding the festival and the feast for the sake of them fitting in more comfortably with their peers until they are old enough to form an opinion which suits their need. It will be hard enough for them as they will be mixed race and will face the challenge of embracing both Anglo-European tradition and Chinese tradition.
• What does christmas mean to those that are devout Christians ?
  • Define 'devout'? I'll assume you mean 'practicing' in the conventional sense, so therefore, see below.
• What does christmas mean to those that aren't practicing christians, but have a latent faith in the concept ?
  • I am not a practicing member of the faith in the conventional sense. There are many tenets of the faith which I hold dear and in which I find comfort, but I eschew religion and the church as corruption of a prime ideology. I find the church to be a politically and economically motivated business pretending to be acting in the name of a deity but only acting in their own self interest.
• What does christmas mean to those who simply do not believe in christianity at all ?
  • See above.

Bitter, me? A little. Certainly cynical.

Still, it's a nice day off to share with friends, showcase a little good cooking and pour two vodkas into the chef as the first part of every recipe.


Cheers - Fermented.

 

[staggalee]

Just putting the whole thing in a nutshell, if I may. :lol:

stagga.

 

[newguy]

View attachment 23394


Batz :lol: :lol:

Love it! I certainly feel scrooge-like around this time of year.

 

[np1962]

No matter what you're doing or why just have a

 

[WarmBeer]

Holy Snapping Arseholes

Best. Quote. Ever.

 

[phonos]

What does christmas mean to those that are devout Christians ?

Hi Jase,

It funny that some Christians actually have a similar attitude to Christmas as many posted here (i.e. its all a heap of crap).

An issue to many Christians parents is what to do about Santa - I thought you might find the following article from the Sydney Anglican website helpful to understand the thoughts that some 'devout' Christians think about Christmas:

Is Santa Homeless?

David