And So This Is ........ Anzac Day

[Jase71]

There's already considerable murmurings throughout AHB regarding ANZAC Day, so how about a thread specific to what it means to members, so as to avoid Off-topic rants?

Unlike Christmas/Easter etc where there are alternate 'meanings' behind the occasion not specific to the origin of Christianity (ie time with family, time off work etc), this year's ANZAC day isn't a day off for most people, so there's no 'convenience' time to have that barbie with mates, or just chill out. I just know someone will chime in and say that they're getting paid holiday rates for working that day, but let's put that aside for now, shall we, and discuss 'what ANZAC Day means to you'.......

Is ANZAC Day a time to remember the fallen soldiers that fought, not by choice in many cases (the zeitgeist was a such that non-conscripted men & women felt compelled, so it may as well have been forced), but by obligation, to preserve some sense of 'freedom' that we are living in as a society, or is it simply a tradition that will eventually be phased out as time marches on ? Do we honour those people who have died in recent conflicts - armed servicemen & women who made the career choice to joined the armed services knowing full well the implications of their trade ? I would hate to be an old man in 30 years from now and hear people honouring those who fought in Timor, Iraq or Afghanistan, because there is simply no threat to our so called 'freedom', and those soldiers made the choice to be part of a military establishment.

Don't misread my intent here, this isn't an opening to a thread that's intended to ruffle feathers by intention - although that's going to be inevitable. But how long do we continue to honour World War One veterans with a national day of pride when there simply aren't any left to honour ?

The last war in which our countrymen were forced to take part in was the second Indochina conflict (or the "Vietnam War" for those of you unfamiliar with the terminology). And there wasn't really any threat of big-bad-communism, was there ? It was simply a popular TV war in which Australia was obliged to fall into line with another country's paranoid ideal that this was a war that, by all contemporary accounts, should never have been allowed to happen.

And ultimately, do we really have freedom today in 2009 ? Today's enemy is far more subtle in it's offensive strategy.

 

[homekegger1]

Jase,

You are entitled to your opinion. That is the beauty of our country. The country my Grandfather fought for and many others as well. At the time these men fought for our country, they believed in what they were doing and they believed that our freedom was under threat. But also that there were far greater atrocities happening in this world to less fortunate countries than ours. Imagine if other countries did not step in against Hitler and his regime. Where would the world be today. Did these men and women have a choice? Yes they did. There's was to help the weak and protect those they could.

Is ANZAC Day a time to remember the fallen soldiers that fought, not by choice in many cases (the zeitgeist was a such that non-conscripted men & women felt compelled, so it may as well have been forced), but by obligation, to preserve some sense of 'freedom' that we are living in as a society, or is it simply a tradition that will eventually be phased out as time marches on ? Do we honour those people who have died in recent conflicts - armed servicemen & women who made the career choice to joined the armed services knowing full well the implications of their trade ?

I say yes. Honour those that had the courage to stand up for what was right and decent. Remember those men and women who sacrificed their own lives to perhaps save just one person, to make the world a better place.

I would hate to be an old man in 30 years from now and hear people honouring those who fought in Timor, Iraq or Afghanistan, because there is simply no threat to our so called 'freedom', and those soldiers made the choice to be part of a military establishment.

You are correct. There was no threat to our freedom. But there was to all the innocent people of these countries. Dictators and evil, greedy people, taking what is not theirs from the weak and defenseless. Would you stand by in the street and allow a bunch of thugs to harrass an old man or woman for her purse or better still one of your own children (Given you have them, if not go with the oldies) Or would you step in and help to protect them? These are the things I see that our country have done. We have stepped in and helped where we can to protect those that cannot protect themselves.

I implore you to walk up to a Sailor, Soldier or Airman on ANZAC day and ask him or her this question about someone that perhaps they know, and whether they deserve to be honoured for helping protect this country or help others, especially since they knew there was a chance that they could die. Perhaps you might find someone polite, but then again...

Don't misread my intent here, this isn't an opening to a thread that's intended to ruffle feathers by intention - although that's going to be inevitable. But how long do we continue to honour World War One veterans with a national day of pride when there simply aren't any left to honour ?

We continue to honour these regardless of whether there are any left or not. It shows a that as a country we are proud of these men and women. It shows the families respect for those that have fallen and left them behind. Is that too much to ask for? RESPECT?

And ultimately, do we really have freedom today in 2009 ? Today's enemy is far more subtle in it's offensive strategy.

Yes we do. We are not confined to our houses or to camps, with people telling us how to eat, sleep and talk etc, we have choices, we have freedom. Granted, the world we live in today is far more subtle in it's offensive strategy, however as we evolve from where we were in the 30's - 40's to now, the world has changed. There are still evil, greedy people out there. They need to be sneakier to achieve what they want because in the past the good people of the world find ways to destroy them. This world has far more good than evil, but it is still there.

It may not be your belief to honour men and women that no longer exist in our society, but take a moment and think about those families that lost grandparents, parents, uncles, aunties, brothers and sisters. Tell them that we should cut it away now they are all gone.

This is history of this country. It may not have started with the best intentions, but it certainly has them close at heart now.

That is my 25cents worth.

Cheers

HK

 

[Jase71]

We are not confined to our houses or to camps, with people telling us how to eat, sleep and talk etc,

You don't think so ? Evil & Sneaky (your words) are the munitions of the new Hitler, and we're all playing the part of the opressed masses. Just turn on your TV, walk into your local Coles, buy your clothes based on some semblence of the 'in' fashion. This is no different than having a serial number tattoed on your forearm.

Kegger, your response is typical of what I would anticipate, but if we focus on your statement of 'protecting the weak', 'making the world a better place', 'atrocities happenning in the world'.... then where were the unitied allied forces when Afghanistan fell into a 15-year Civil War (after the CIA stopped funding the covert fight against the Soviets)? Where was the presence when China decided that they would take Tibet by force ? Or the ongoing struggle (to this day) for land-rights concerning the state of Kashmir after the British decided to partition India & Pakistan back in 1947 ? How about the regional carnage that allowed Pol Pot to rise to power, in which it took the dreaded Vietnamese Army to overthrow when America wiped their hands clean? And do we need to bring up the countless African countries ?

I can tell you where the allied forces were.... nowhere to be seen ! Conflicts in our lifetime are driven by a purpose not to protect the weak, but to harness a self-interest in equitable resource control.

Sure, WW 1, WW 2, even Korea should be remembered for as long as the pawns are alive (note: my 90 year old grandfather is a proud veteran who, gladly, is looked after very well by our VA facilities) but when does the spirit of ANZAC Day end ? I would suggest that it should be very soon, maybe in the next 10 years.

 

[homekegger1]

Well it would appear to me that you are not after peoples thoughts on ANZAC day at all. More like a political argument that really has no merit to what people think ANZAC day is to them. I don't claim to be an expert, I merely explained what ANZAC day was to me, and how I felt. As different as it is to your thoughts.

As for your tattooed forearm comment.... WTF!!!

 

[Jase71]

And I am giving my thoughts, based on your first response. You cannot deny me that freedom. If you had issue with my intention (ie my first post) then why did you comment?

 

[bum]

You cannot deny him that freedom.

 

[buttersd70]

And we've reached a new low...

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

I was wonderng what Jase was going to come with about ANZAC day. Every important day to some people he comes out with something, generally not related to beer/brewing (which is what I thought this forum is about) just to to stir up someone.

Now go one Jase shoot me down with some sort of long winded reply.....

 

[Jase71]

I said nothing of Easter

 

[Jase71]

And we've reached a new low...

Not really. I haven't been suspended.

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

I said nothing of Easter

You have a short memory, second line of your original post.....

 

[Cocko]

ADD Reply:

USA:
You know we armed Iraq. I wondered about that too, you know during the Persian Gulf war those intelligence reports would come out: "Iraq: incredible weapons - incredible weapons." How do you know that? "Uh, well...we looked at the receipts. [Bill Hicks]

Really Jase, a thread about war OR is it really what ANZAC day means?

You should have lead with; "What does Anzac day mean to you?" .... thats all..

That said: To me it means; a reminder of how stupid military and wars are BUT what a pipe dream to live in a world without it....

Anyway, I have to go keg a APA so whatever!!

Respect to the diggers! tomorrow I will lift my glass to you!

 

[Jase71]

You should have lead with; "What does Anzac day mean to you?" .... thats all..

yea I know - I was going to let it go at that very simple statement and chime in as it progressed, but the urge overwhelmed me. Still, I'm no less an "Australian" than the rest of you mugs, am I ?

:icon_offtopic: Cocko, I think I'm still eagerly awaiting some art photos from you. In the relevant thread of course

 

[Cocko]

:icon_offtopic: Sorry Bruv... They will come!

ANZAC means nice bikki's too yeah?

 

[Jase71]

Oh yea, my (now dead) grandmother, she being my almost 90 year old veteran granddad's wife, used to make the BEST ANZAC cookies.

Ya notice this shit in the supermarkets in the past few years, the blue packet, sold as ANZAC cookies, and rolled out as predictably as baubles at X-Mas or choc-eggs at Easter, they are terrible. Well, they aren't of that rich oat-driven taste sensation of the 'real' recipe anyway.

Know your enemy. They work though a Woolworths store near you !

 

[Pollux]

Is any day sacred from your need to constantly begin an argument??

I will not add any more to this discussion, something about not feeding the trolls...

 

[Supra-Jim]

Ya notice this shit in the supermarkets in the past few years, the blue packet, sold as ANZAC cookies, and rolled out as predictably as baubles at X-Mas or choc-eggs at Easter, they are terrible. Well, they aren't of that rich oat-driven taste sensation of the 'real' recipe anyway.

Golden rule of ANZAC bikkies (not cookies!) is that they are NOT bought, they are always homemade, and the recipe they are made from is something that is handed down through families, or perfected by Country Womens Associations cooks.

:icon_cheers: SJ

 

[Fents]

It means my dad gets to march and wear his medals and stand up proud for fighting in Nam. Its also means i get to ring him and tell him how proud i am of him for doing his bit.

Also means i usually get to see my team flogged by the collywobbles and sometimes the other way round and have a massive session with mates on the piss.

I love hearing the Last post too, gives me shivers.

 

[.DJ.]

its mean remembering ALL soldiers who have fought for our country, starting with the original ANZAC's leading the way..

 

[Fents]

word DJ, almost forgot about my gandpa in WW1.