Silly Question From Newbie

[wbosher]

If BIAB is so good and easy, what are the benefits in the 3v thing?

Haven't done any AG yet, just curious.

 

[bum]

If BIAB is so good and easy, what are the benefits in the 3v thing?

Mate. Don't. Honestly. Just don't.

 

[bruce86]

hahahaha enter the shit fight its all down to individuals mate and what suits who best. I biab but will get to a full rig but atm biab easier.

 

[wbosher]

Mate. Don't. Honestly. Just don't.

Really? That bad huh? :lol:

 

[manticle]

Benefits are for those who aren't necessarily caring about the easy part. That's pretty much it.

One milllion threads on this already exist.

Champion Brewer at this year's state comp in VIC is a BIAB stovetop guy. Runner up Champion brewer is a (very basic) 3V guy.

Just pick what will work for you.

You like to build and tinker - Go 3V, maybe HERMS or RIMS in future. You like simple with limited space, outlay etc? Go BIAB. It doesn't ******* matter what vessels you use to make wort - understand the principles properly and understand your system properly then make sure you understand fermenting, conditioning, packaging and storing properly and you will make good beer.

 

[kenlock]

"..things." are almost never worth doing.

 

[wbosher]

No biggie, just been reading a lot today about BIAB (thanks Nick) and it seems so simple...although haven't tried it yet.

Just wondering if there was any real benefit of going all out with 3v, and if so why.

Didn't mean to stir up any shit.

 

[bum]

Didn't mean to stir up any shit.

Everyone understands that but you might as well have started a conversation on abortion with the Pope. Do some more reading and you'll see why.

Looks like you're grabbing a big vessel to brew full volume batches. Try looking out side of Nick's thread for more tips. Don't ignore what it says in Nick's thread but be aware it is an adaptation of sorts of the methods that might be more appropriate for the rig you're building. PistolPatch started a hugely epic BIAB thread a long time back (I think it is a sticky?) and it will be well worth your time reading as much of it as you can stand to.

 

[Yob]

I like that there are many people here that have progressed through them all

my experience, and understanding is systems evolve with you... adopt the following formula

=

X space / desire x ability to tinker / cashflow % time = Beer

h34r:

 

[bruce86]

I like that there are many people here that have progressed through them all

my experience, and understanding is systems evolve with you... adopt the following formula

=

X space / desire x ability to tinker / cashflow % time = Beer

h34r:

well said yob

 

[BPH87]

Hey mate try searching the forums first;

Benefits of a 3V brew rig

What I did was start with BIAB, but now I am getting keen to upgrade (spend a heap of coin).

It is all about what you are looking for.

Good Luck

 

[Crusty]

I think it's wise to get as much info as you can & weigh up the differences between the two & go from there. Biab is a great way to brew fantastic beers & it will probably be a lot cheaper than a 3V system to get going. I had a 3V PID controlled Rims system but my brew days were a pain in the ass. I was a little tired of the complexity of the set up & wasn't happy with a few ways I set up some of my brew rig. It was built from scratch & the rig set up was a bit of trial & error. I had to monitor my mash all the time & was looking for an easier way. I Biab in a 40lt electric urn these days & really enjoy the simplicity. The beers I make now are identical to the beers that came out of the full temp control brew rig so in my situation, Biab suited me much better. I would look into Biab to get you started as it's pretty cheap to make All Grain beer & if you decide to progress from there, there are some great Herms & Rims set ups on this site to look at & ask the owners questions about. I made the mistake of thinking that a temp controlled mash with my 3V Rims would make better beer than a simpler system but this proved incorrect. The brews are exactly the same. Fermentation temp control is probably the most critical part of your brewery & fermenting at ambient temperature is a bad idea so look into this important requirement.................. :beerbang:

 

[bignath]

Well said Crusty.

I've also come from a 3V background which i was really happy with for a good 3-4 years. But then life got a bit busier for me, family expanded a couple of times and i started looking at my 3V rig and thinking, by the time i set it up, make the beer, clean it all and pack it away etc.....

So i started looking into the BIAB stuff, and haven't noticed a difference in my beers (all things equal).

My efficiency has suffered a bit going to BIAB (typically 80-85% 3V, vs 70-75% BIAB) but i'm taking steps at the moment to try and work out where i can pick it back up again, but i adjust my recipes to suit and all is good.

Going BIAB, i have literally shaved a good 1.5hours off of a brew day, and for me, that's priceless.
I still have my 3V rig, so if i want to drag it out and use it i can, but at the moment i'm having a hard time justifying going back.

Besides, if the idea of bling excites you, you can always tart up a biab rig with some more precise temp control, a recirculating system if you like the idea etc....

There's plenty of people here that have done that sort of thing...

 

[bum]

I had to monitor my mash all the time

I'm not having a dig here, Crusty, (I know it will look like I am) I'm glad you've found a way to make your brewday more enjoyable but isn't this the exact opposite to the situation a PID is supposed to create?

Did you try adjusting your system to a gravity 3v, single infusion system to simplify it before you went BIAB?

I'm not trying to get you to change your mind in the slightest - as I say, it is awesome to see any brewer enjoying their brewdays but I'm just curious because your vitriolic attacks on 3v don't seem to marry up with my experience at all (gravity fed 3v).

 

[Crusty]

I'm not having a dig here, Crusty, (I know it will look like I am) I'm glad you've found a way to make your brewday more enjoyable but isn't this the exact opposite to the situation a PID is supposed to create?

Did you try adjusting your system to a gravity 3v, single infusion system to simplify it before you went BIAB?

I'm not trying to get you to change your mind in the slightest - as I say, it is awesome to see any brewer enjoying their brewdays but I'm just curious because your vitriolic attacks on 3v don't seem to marry up with my experience at all (gravity fed 3v).

Hey bum.
I had a 2 vessel system before the 3V Rims. It was a 50lt converted keg that I used to heat strike water, sparge water & it was then my boil kettle. My mash tun was a 10g igloo cooler with a domed false bottom. I lost 1deg at most in the 60min mash & was led to believe that controlling the mash even more precisely would result in a better finished beer. I now know that this is not the case. A PID will indeed keep the set temp precisely it is fantastic at doing that & if doing protein rests, step mashes etc, I think there is no better way than the PID.
I had quite a few stuck mashes with my recirculation & tried several different ways of trying to avoid it. I used a higher L/G ratio, I tried slower recirculation & still encountered problems. Everything would be fine up until the last 20-30mins into the mash & all of a sudden, stuck mash. I had to watch it like a hawk & a few brews got away from me & I did indeed scorch the wort & had piss poor efficiency. There was certain things on my rig that I would probably change if I was doing it again & one of them would be pots with a flat bottom instead of kegs with the domed bottom. I'm not attacking 3V at all mate, if that's what suits you better than all the power to ya. From inexperience, I got caught up in the bling & gadgets & was cocky in my way of thinking that I was going to make better beer now as I have total control over the mash & the PID will allow me to do things that the manual system just wouldn't. It proved wrong & the beers are as good now as I ever made on the 3V. I just prefer to heat up my full volume in the urn, add the bag & grain, stir & walk away for 90mins. Come back & heat to mash out, rousing the mash whilst getting there & hoist the bag. It's a great way to brew & a lot easier than what I was doing before. If I had the coin, I would probably look at recirculating again with something off the shelf like the Braumeister but again, I don't think the beer will be any better than what I'm making now, just a bit easier than hoisting that bag............... :icon_cheers:

 

[bum]

Ah, understood. I've only had one stuck mash but it was so horrific that if it happened all the time like it did on your rig I probably wouldn't even have looked at another system - I just would have taken up knitting or something.

 

[Nick JD]

This is like asking, "Which is the better half of a woman - the top or the bottom."

Now I've thought long and hard about this question, and it's easy to jump the gun and say, "Well, the bottom half, of course."

But given a bit of reflection, and time to ponder a future with only those options I consider the bottom and top half equal in merit.

What was the question again?

 

[Crusty]

Ah, understood. I've only had one stuck mash but it was so horrific that if it happened all the time like it did on your rig I probably wouldn't even have looked at another system - I just would have taken up knitting or something.

:lol:

I had one stuck sparge with my igloo cooler but I was using a pretty thick mash, 2.7l/kg I think. A quick stir & a vourlauf & all good again. I upped the l/g ratio to around 3l/kg & never had a problem again. The gravity 2V system I had was fantastic & I could give myself an uppercut for trying to improve on something that was already great. Lesson learn't I guess. Stuck sparges aren't fun & the March pump suction was giving me curry & I got the shits with it in the end & decided to give Biab a go. If the urn ever claps out, I still have most of my old system here & would just need a false bottom & weldless ball valve for the cooler & I'm away again. I'm purely looking at replacement costs here, a new urn against those couple of items.

 

[pcmfisher]

Should stick with kits. They're just as good. h34r: h34r:

 

[wbosher]

This is like asking, "Which is the better half of a woman - the top or the bottom."

Without the top half, it might as well be a hand.

I have no intention to bling anything up, I want to keep things as simple as possible. I've got two young kids who demand a lot of my time, "Daddy, play with me!", so the less time I have to spend the better at this point in time.

I'm really looking forward to getting a few more things and getting started on BIAB, will do a bit more reading and Youtubing though.

Should stick with kits. They're just as good.

I've heard people get shot for saying such things! :lol:

In all honesty though, I've made some quite nice kit beers. I'm drinking a really nice Coopers 20L IPA at the moment. I'm sure AG will taste a lot better, but even an average kit beer still tastes a lot better than most of the commercial beers around here.