Saf S33 Wtf?

[falcon250]

G'day all,

I recently bought a packet of Saflager s 33 yeast from my local hbs in Hobart and after doing a little research I discovered that this strain is actually ale yeast and not lager yeast, can anyone shed further light on this as I wish to Lager
this beer for about 4-5 weeks but am worried because it is an ale strain ( I bottle condition).

Cheers for any help!!..

 

[Kieren]

http://www.fermentis.com/fo/60-Beer/60-11_...uct_rangeHB.asp

 

[Tyred]

According to the yeast specifications (http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/HB/EN/Safbrew_S-33_HB.pdf) it should be fine for bottle conditioning.

 

[Wolfy]

... after doing a little research I discovered that this strain is actually ale yeast and not lager yeast, can anyone shed further light on this as I wish to Lager
this beer for about 4-5 weeks but am worried because it is an ale strain ( I bottle condition).

No matter which yeast you use (Ale or Lager) after after 4-5 weeks lagering you will most likely need to add fresh yeast at bottling time to ensure there is enough yeast for your bottle conditioning.

 

[manticle]

Saflager s-23 is a lager yeast.
Safbrew s-33 is a specialty ale yeast.

http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/HB/EN/Safbrew_S-33_HB.pdf
http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/CB/EN/Saflager_S-23_CB.pdf

 

[Wolfy]

Saflager s-23 is a lager yeast.
Safbrew s-33 is a specialty ale yeast.

Oops, should have checked the link I clicked on, edit time.

 

[falcon250]

No matter which yeast you use (Ale or Lager) after after 4-5 weeks lagering you will most likely need to add fresh yeast at bottling time to ensure there is enough yeast for your bottle conditioning.

G'day Wolfy,

Thanks for that answer as I am relatively new to brewing lagers how much yeast approximately will I need to add before bottling?

Thanks.

 

[aaronpetersen]

G'day Wolfy,

Thanks for that answer as I am relatively new to brewing lagers how much yeast approximately will I need to add before bottling?

Thanks.

In my experience you won't need to add any extra yeast. It will still carbonate fine after lagering, it will just take a bit longer. I always lager my...erm...lagers for at least a month and have never needed to add extra yeast when I bottle. It does usually take at least a month before they are carbonated though.

 

[drsmurto]

No matter which yeast you use (Ale or Lager) after after 4-5 weeks lagering you will most likely need to add fresh yeast at bottling time to ensure there is enough yeast for your bottle conditioning.

Urban myth.

I lager my pilsners for up to 3 months and have never failed to bottle condition them. No need for more yeast, unless you sterile filter there will be yeast still in suspension.

 

[Wolfy]

Urban myth.

I lager my pilsners for up to 3 months and have never failed to bottle condition them. No need for more yeast, unless you sterile filter there will be yeast still in suspension.

Urban myth: Urban legends, folklore, myths, rumors, and misinformation
I don't count yeast cells (never really seen the need), but this guy on the UK JBK forums does, and after 7 weeks lagering the cell count in his beer was 0: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtop...l+count#p454182
Hence, for his setup/procedure/beer unless yeast were added back after lagering there would be none to bottle-condition the beer.

Page 117 of the "Yeast - The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation" also says:
"Homebrewed beer, if you do not filter it, usually has more than enough yeast left in suspension ... to carbonate the beer. If the beer sat for a month or more before bottling ... it may warrant some additional yeast at bottling."

While I do not doubt that for your setup/procedure/beer there is is enough yeast in suspension after lagering to bottle condition, I'd suggest that it is not 'misinformation' if my suggestion is backed by both both published information and homebrewed examples where that is not the case. If the OP is using a dry yeast, it is very easy to add a small amount of yeast when bottling, and IMHO there is more reason for adding the yeast than there is to neglect it, but each to their own, no doubt it depends a great deal on the individual brewer, their procedures and preferences.

 

[drsmurto]

Urban myth: Urban legends, folklore, myths, rumors, and misinformation
I don't count yeast cells (never really seen the need), but this guy on the UK JBK forums does, and after 7 weeks lagering the cell count in his beer was 0: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtop...l+count#p454182
Hence, for his setup/procedure/beer unless yeast were added back after lagering there would be none to bottle-condition the beer.

Page 117 of the "Yeast - The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation" also says:
"Homebrewed beer, if you do not filter it, usually has more than enough yeast left in suspension ... to carbonate the beer. If the beer sat for a month or more before bottling ... it may warrant some additional yeast at bottling."

While I do not doubt that for your setup/procedure/beer there is is enough yeast in suspension after lagering to bottle condition, I'd suggest that it is not 'misinformation' if my suggestion is backed by both both published information and homebrewed examples where that is not the case. If the OP is using a dry yeast, it is very easy to add a small amount of yeast when bottling, and IMHO there is more reason for adding the yeast than there is to neglect it, but each to their own, no doubt it depends a great deal on the individual brewer, their procedures and preferences.

Ever try drawing a line of best fit through a single data point. He states that he only did 1 cell count and if i got a result of 0 the first thing i would have done is to repeat it. Multiple times. Then calculate an average. I might even get over stimulated by the whole process and plot a graph with error bars. :icon_drool2: h34r:

I can imagine if you lagered your beer and it was partially frozen during the process that you could get a cell count low enough such that carbonation didn't occur. I have done that and i did add fresh yeast at bottling but when i don't freeze my beer i have never had any trouble with bottle conditioning.

But you are right, that is my setup/system and i know it well enough now not to freeze my lagering beer and hence not need to add fresh yeast.

From your point of view i guess you see it as an insurance policy, it won't hurt (although i would wonder about the added yeast impacting on the flavour of a beer?)

 

[Wolfy]

Ever try drawing a line of best fit through a single data point. He states that he only did 1 cell count and if i got a result of 0 the first thing i would have done is to repeat it. Multiple times. Then calculate an average. I might even get over stimulated by the whole process and plot a graph with error bars. :icon_drool2: h34r:
...
From your point of view i guess you see it as an insurance policy, it won't hurt (although i would wonder about the added yeast impacting on the flavour of a beer?)

Actually he did it twice (next post down), but while its still only a small/single example, it's enough to make it not a myth.

If the yeast added was done at the 'correct rate' (1million cells/ml) I'm not sure it would have any impact on taste - that should be just enough for a light dusting on the bottom of the bottle, many homebrewed beers already seem to have more yeast than that and that yeast is probably older than yeast added when bottling too. The 'Yeast' book suggests that you could use any yeast and not notice the difference, I guess it's like adding a tiny bit of priming sugar that is also not noticed.

 

[RobH]

OP ... Was it Saflager S-23 that you bought, or Safbrew S-33?
I can't find anything called Saflager S-33

 

[falcon250]

G'day,

The packet was labelled "Saflager S-33", I have used saf yeasts many times before and this seemed a bit weird, I think your right it is he Safbrew variety just wrong info on the packet.

 

[falcon250]

Ever try drawing a line of best fit through a single data point. He states that he only did 1 cell count and if i got a result of 0 the first thing i would have done is to repeat it. Multiple times. Then calculate an average. I might even get over stimulated by the whole process and plot a graph with error bars. :icon_drool2: h34r:

I can imagine if you lagered your beer and it was partially frozen during the process that you could get a cell count low enough such that carbonation didn't occur. I have done that and i did add fresh yeast at bottling but when i don't freeze my beer i have never had any trouble with bottle conditioning.

But you are right, that is my setup/system and i know it well enough now not to freeze my lagering beer and hence not need to add fresh yeast.

From your point of view i guess you see it as an insurance policy, it won't hurt (although i would wonder about the added yeast impacting on the flavour of a beer?)

My first lager has been sitting at 3 deg c for nearly 4 weeks now so I guess judging from your info it should be ok to bottle at the 4 or 5 week mark with no added yeast, temp has remained pretty constant throughout.

 

[HoppingMad]

After doing a lager I grab about 3/4 a teaspoon of US-05 Ale yeast and mix it in to the fermenter before bottling off. Seems to do the trick.

I guess you could do it Smurto's way but 12 weeks versus 2-4 weeks to carb? I'm not really the patient type when it comes to waiting for beer!

:drinks:

Hopper

Disclaimer: Please note the way I do it I rack the lager off the yeast cake which is the reason why I add yeast (ie. I don't have much left after racking). Smurto may well leave some lager yeast cake in his brew for fizz. Also note that using ale yeast for carbing means you can get fizz at room temps/ale temps (18-20). Using lager yeast for carbing is more ideally done at a lager temp from what I've read (i.e. around 11 degrees) - but yet to try this myself. Some folks pop their bottles into a temp controlled fridge to acheive this lager yeast carbonation.

 

[drsmurto]

It will take longer to carbonate but when that is 2-3 weeks vs the normal 1 week it's not requring vast amounts more patience that is already requried when bottling beer, as compared to the 15 mins i wait after kegging and force carbing! :lol:

I do rack my pilsners but normally at about the 4 week mark and by that time i have already cooled the beer down to 1C in readiness for lagering. So there is no 'visible' yeast in the beer that goes into the cube for lagering, it's clear at this point. After up to 3 months of conditioning there is a visible yeastcake on the bottom of the cube so despite the fact the beer looks clear there is still plenty of viable yeast left.

Again, my system, my method and far too few data points to be statistical relevant so just my 2 cents.

 

[drtomc]

I have never added more yeast for bottling, and have never had a beer fail to carbonate.

Including a Saison that got left by mistake in a secondary cube for 6 months.

T.