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johnno

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Hi all
I've currently got a lager going with a Saflager S 23 yeast.
First time I have used it. What is the experience with others that have used it when it comes to reusing it?
I want to reuse it about 3 more times.
Thanks in advance.

cheers
 

Batz

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I've never worried about it Johnno , that yeast is cheap enough as is , I can't see why you could not just pitch on top of the yeast cake again , perhaps just once

Next time try the S34/70 , I think you will it better to the S23
 

Batz

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you will FIND it better

gotta read my posts before hitting that button ! :rolleyes:
 

RobW

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Johnno

If you make a starter from some of the slurry you can split it into as many as you want without having to worry about mutations. But Batz is right - it's cheap enough that it's hardly worth the effort. And the 34/70 is better - give that a go.
 

Darren

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KenEasy said:
Johnno

If you make a starter from some of the slurry you can split it into as many as you want without having to worry about mutations. But Batz is right - it's cheap enough that it's hardly worth the effort. And the 34/70 is better - give that a go.
Johnno,
My advice would be to never re-use dry yeast. It is cheap and is only ever intented to be used once. The drying process allows a small amount of bacteria to be dried with the yeast. First pitch of the yeast the bacteria don't grow to significant numbers.
If you re-pitch onto a dry yeast cake the bacteria numbers are a lot higher and will probably impart off-flavours.
Remember, yeast makes beer. You want it to be as clean and health as possible.
cheers
Darren
 

Batz

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It seems we all agree that the price of a dried yeast is not really worth the trouble of keeping alive to use another day.

I make 6 starters from my wyeasts , I am happy with that , I did take some from my fermenter once , a Pilsen , I did not have anymore and required it for a brew in a few days time.
It worked well , and I am sure in a few years time I will be wanting to get all out of my yeasts I can.

As far as your yeast cake , if you bottle/keg your brew and have a wort ready to chuck on your yeast cake right away , it'll be fine
You can do this a few times , but I would say do it once only and your have your moneys worth.

Tried liquid yeasts yet Johnno?

Cheers Batz
 

johnno

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OK,
I'll stop being a tightarse. Maybe reuse it just once.
Batz I have tried the Wyeast 1056 and the 1028(Thanks TDA).
I just picked the dry yeast up last weekend as I didnt have time to get to the grain and grape. I was just passing a brew shop and rushed in. Plus I havent tried any of the DCL yeasts yet so I wanted to give them a try.
I dont even have the time for making starters up at the moment either. Another reason for trying the dry yeast.

cheers
 

MAH

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Sorry Johno, but I'm going to hijack your thread. I was at a gathering of all-grainers on the weekend, and we were talking about reusing yeast. I'd got a sample of an ale yeast off one these guys, who is meticulous with his culturing practices, but it was infected and ruined 40ltrs of my beer and two other brewers lost their brews. It turns out that it was a sample that had been passed on to someone, who had passed it onto someone etc. None of us knew this when we first used it and we assumed it was OK.

The decision I made was to never to do this again, because yeast is cheap. In Adelaide even the Wyeast packs can be picked up for as little as $10.50. My new practice will be to smack the yeast and make a starter. Use most of the starter for a brew, but decant some off into 3 stubbies for later use. When I use these stubbies, I'll only make one brew from them. That's 4 brews from one pack and still bugger all money. I reckon this will greatly reduce my chance of bad yeast and will have stuff all impact on the cost of my beer.

We spend so much time and effort making sure our hops and malt are fresh, so why not do the same for your yeast. They have just as much impact as the other ingredients.

Cheers
MAH
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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This thing about bacteria and dry yeast does not ring true, mebbe for cheap yeasts. I think the Safxxx yeasts suck!

There is a very valid reason though to reuse (good) dry yeast: to create a slurry to pitch into a bigger beer. Since you need a big population of yeast for a lager (so it buds off less times as each generation budded off adds flavors unwanted in a lager) it would pay to pitch a packet or two of say 34/70 into a small light colored lager, ferment that out then pitch the cake into a big lager. This would work with with ale yeasts too, not to reduce the number of yeast generations but to ensure complete attenuation of a barleywine say.


Jovial Monk
 

Batz

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The Monk has spoken


Cheers Tom

:blink:
 

Jazman

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well i hate the 23 i did one brew and it was shit with it i liquid yeast and hvae had goood results with and have a goood dried as a back up
 

RobW

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Darren said:
Johnno,
My advice would be to never re-use dry yeast. It is cheap and is only ever intented to be used once. The drying process allows a small amount of bacteria to be dried with the yeast. First pitch of the yeast the bacteria don't grow to significant numbers.
If you re-pitch onto a dry yeast cake the bacteria numbers are a lot higher and will probably impart off-flavours.
Remember, yeast makes beer. You want it to be as clean and health as possible.
cheers
Darren
Darren

Dr Clayton Cone hit that one on the head recently:

http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalv...aq.html#repitch

Apparently it was true in the past but not any longer.
 

Darren

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KenEasy said:
Darren said:
Johnno,
My advice would be to never re-use dry yeast. It is cheap and is only ever intented to be used once. The drying process allows a small amount of bacteria to be dried with the yeast. First pitch of the yeast the bacteria don't grow to significant numbers.
If you re-pitch onto a dry yeast cake the bacteria numbers are a lot higher and will probably impart off-flavours.
Remember, yeast makes beer. You want it to be as clean and health as possible.
cheers
Darren
Darren

Dr Clayton Cone hit that one on the head recently:

http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalv...aq.html#repitch

Apparently it was true in the past but not any longer.
Johnno,
Would you expect anything else from a Lallemand FAQ website :)
I express my opinion from personal experience of re-pitching onto dry yeast cake. Never had the problem pitching onto liquid yeast cake. You know, once bitten twice shy!
cheers
Darren
 

MAH

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Ken

If you read Dr C Cone's reply in it's entireity, there's a quite clear message about re-using dried yeast. He went on to say:

"However, we feel that it is prudent practice to limit the repitching to two or three times at most. Even the big breweries, with all of their sanitary savvy, limit their repitching to less than 6 times The cost of dry beer yeast is such that it is economical to maintain minimum repitching practice. Many brew pubs do not attempt to recover yeast for repitching, they just rehydrate and pitch fresh each time."

Repitch 2 to 3 times AT MOST. Many brew pubs just rehydrate and pitch fresh each time. If I was reading between the lines, my guess is Dr C Cone is saying, yes our product has improved, but don't bother repitching becuase dried yeast is cheap and specifically designed for simple one time applications. The tone of his comments suggests that even with liquid yeast, you should limit the number of times you repitch, because as home brewers we are just not equiped to keep a culture pure.

"Good laboratory and sanitary practices are equally important. You would be surprised how many single yeast colonies contain bacteria when you streak from an infected wort."

Cheers
MAH
 

Trough Lolly

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If I'm gonna spend big bucks on good grain and fresh hops, the cost of a couple of sachets of dry yeast (if I have run out of smack packs and liquid yeast starters) is negligible rather than risking the whole brew on a starter from old dry yeast.

I used to think W34/70 was good, until I discovered XL smack packs - 'nuff said!
My $0.02!
TL
 

RobW

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Darren said:
Would you expect anything else from a Lallemand FAQ website :)
Well I'd have expected them to say you couldn't repitch it so they'd sell more yeast ;)
 

johnno

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TL
If Im going to spend all that money and put in all that time I may as well just go and but a slab of good beer and drink it.
Sometimes there is not enough time in the day.
Has anyone ever used a dry DCL yeast that didn't take off?

cheers
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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Gotta agree, TL, sure a re a lot more liquid than dry yeasts!

But I keep a couple sachets 34/70, Nottingham and Windsor in the fridge at home for when a starter gets funky or a sudden opportunity to brew presents itself.

I have always preached 3 pitchings onto any yeast cake is the max safe number

Jovial Monk
 

Darren

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KenEasy said:
Well I'd have expected them to say you couldn't repitch it so they'd sell more yeast ;)
Would you buy more yeast if they said it contained a moderate level of bacteria with the yeast?
 

RobW

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Darren said:
KenEasy said:
Well I'd have expected them to say you couldn't repitch it so they'd sell more yeast ;)
Would you buy more yeast if they said it contained a moderate level of bacteria with the yeast?
Getting a bit hypothetical now Darren but it would depend on what type of bacteria they were & how many. Not all bacteria are going to successfully colonise your wort, in fact the vast majority probably won't. Bottom line is I would try it and see for myself. If it works then fine I'll do it again. If it doesn't I try something else. Which is why I know you can successfully reculture dried yeast - because I've done it.
 

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