Roggenbier

[Tony]

Planning on developing a Rye pale ale for the keg as a quaffer with 10 to 15% rye in it.

The Bull Rye-der is perfect for that!

your the ideas man today mate I love it!

Just ran a bit into a small jar to taste while i was filling the fermenter. Its amazing. It has a texture in the mouth like a soft warm marsmellow. It feels like more than a liquid. but its light and delicate. THis is going to be tops when its done.

cheers

 

[choppadoo]

I brewed something similar to Tonys "Knight Rye-der" on the weekend, bit more of a belgian pale though i guess. Just wanted to see what using a variety of different grains without specialty or crystal malts would produce.

20% Rye Malt
30% Wheat malt
5% Oats
45% Pilsner Malt.
25IBUs with tettnang @ 60mins
OG 1059
Mashed @ 65C
Pitched Belgian Ardennes 3522 yeast @ 19C

Should be an interesting drop with the spicy rye malt, spicy german hops and spicy belgian yeast.
I've never used rye malt before, so I'd like to hear what people have to say about this recipe, or how it might turn out.

Cheers,
Chops

 

[yardy]

Should be an interesting drop with the spicy rye malt, spicy german hops and spicy belgian yeast.
I've never used rye malt before, so I'd like to hear what people have to say about this recipe, or how it might turn out.

Cheers,
Chops

Gday Chops,

Rye & Wheat is an awesome combo imo, I've done quite a few similar to your recipe but without the oats, I normally run with about 35 to 40 % Rye, the Tett will compliment it nicely, can't comment on the yeast though, never tried it.
I did do JZ's Roggen with T-58 and i have to say it was my least favourite.

Cheers
Yard

 

[reviled]

I am planning another Roggenbier.......... with a twist.

Im not going to brew it with a Wheat weast, its going in on a belgian!

I have 3787 and i recon it will work well. fantastic flavour profile, great attenuation, very floculant, sounds perfect.

And you cant tell me some fenolic spice wont work in a Roggen!

Thinking of brewing it for the NSW Xmas case swap.

the plan is:

50% Rye malt
20% Dark wheat malt
20% Pilsner malt
8% Munich II
2% Crystal Rye

Bitter with Styrian Goldings
Late hops SAAZ.

1.070, 26 IBU, 22 EBC

Going to make and no chill 2 x 17 liter cubes of it and pitch the yeast in one, on day 4 pour the second cube in.

Might look at doing it in the next couple of weeks so it has time to mature before xmas. Belgian yeast is the oposite of wheat yeast i have found.

any comments folks?

cheers

Can I ask what the benifit is of only pitching yeast on one cube initially?

 

[Dave86]

Reviled, I'm pretty sure the idea is (someone correct if I'm wrong) simply to get the pitching rate up. ie: you need less yeast for 17L as you do for 34L. By the time the second cube goes in, you should have more yeast on the go

 

[muckanic]

Hi folks

First post, and I thought I might share some experiences with my first roggenbier recently.

The grist was 50% Franklin, 50% rye malt (unknown variety), shooting for an OG of 45-50. I didn't want any coloured malts in there so that I could get a handle on the contribution of the rye. Similarly, I didn't want to use a weizen yeast, so opted for a culture from Little Elf's witbier.

[heresy]I mash in at room temperature for 3 hours, in order to hydrate the goods[\heresy]. After that, I used wheat beer steps of 44-55-65. I noticed things started to get interesting at the proteolysis stage, as the mash tasted unusually tangy. Sure enough, the pH was down in the 4's. From my experience, the mash hadn't spent long enough in the 30-50C range for it to be a lactic effect, plus I have tended to find in the past that unmalted goods have a much higher bacterial count. Hence, I am assuming that the acidity was largely due to the action of phytase, which is something I have not encountered before with various combinations of Oz malts and other stuff. Could be that the rye malt was relatively lightly kilned? Before noticing the acidity, I had used a water treatment of 2:1 CaSO4:MgSO4 purely out of habit, and wound up having to add 1t of CaCO3 just prior to the 65C rest in order to get the pH up above 5. So the protein rest was conducted quite acidically; in fact, it was probably closer to the theoretical optimum than it would normally be.

The upshot is that sparging wasn't a problem at all - that happened later. I would speculate that I could have handled a 100% rye mash if I had wanted to. The sweet wort was still yellow and viscous going into the boiler, as others have observed. My problem is that the boiler employs an immersion element which managed to overheat with all the viscosity, which is a first. An overheat switch cut in, but not before some minor scorching had occurred. Chalk that one up to experience.

On a slightly different topic, I noticed that a couple of folks in this thread had problems with high final gravities, and were blaming the usual suspects of yeast, mashing regime, ferment temperature, etc. To that I would add don't overlook wort nutrition, odd as it might sound in an all-grain brew. Pro brewers take free amino nitrogen, for instance, extremely seriously. Yeah I know, we tend not to use undermodified malts in Oz, but I can confirm that I have cured stuck ferments that shouldn't have stuck with a dose of nutrient salts (essentially a combo of ammonium, vit B and Mg). In fact, I am now starting to wonder whether there are any reasons not to use torula yeast or wheatgerm as an organic nutrient supplement in all brews, just in case. Another thing that seems to work as a cure is dry hopping; something I have always attributed to a kind of mechanical rousing effect, but there could possibly be a nutritional angle there as well.

 

[yardy]

The upshot is that sparging wasn't a problem at all - that happened later. I would speculate that I could have handled a 100% rye mash if I had wanted to.

let us know how that one goes :icon_cheers:

cheers

 

[Ross]

Just kegged my 4th Roggenbier, as per the recipe below. This one was the sparge from hell, despite using less rye than in some earlier recipes.
I was ready for the dramas, but this one was so oily, even after scrapping the grain away from the perorated false bottom, the liquid wouldn't drain through it!!! I ended up having to do a full volume sparge heated to 90c to get it to flow. The final beer tates great, but I cant believe its supposed to have this oily a character? - The BJCP guidelines certainly don't mention it. My previous versions have had a beautiful silkiness, this is more like a creamy milkshake.
Is there a mash rest that will reduce this final gummyness & has anyone tried it?

Roggenbier IV
Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)

Type: All Grain
Date: 12/07/2009
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 35.31 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 77.00

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Rye Malt (weyermann) (5.0 EBC) Grain 56.26 %
1.25 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (25.0 EBC) Grain 17.58 %
1.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 14.06 %
0.40 kg Biscuit Malt (55.0 EBC) Grain 5.63 %
0.40 kg Crystal Rye Malt (Bairds) (157.6 EBC) Grain 5.63 %
0.06 kg Carafa II (1150.0 EBC) Grain 0.84 %
30.00 gm Saaz [3.60 %] (80 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
50.00 gm Saaz [3.60 %] (20 min) Hops 10.0 IBU
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast-Wheat

Measured Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.08 %
Bitterness: 20.4 IBU Calories: 489 cal/l
Est Color: 32.1 EBC


Cheers Ross

 

[AndrewQLD]

40 beta glucan rest would help Ross.

A mash rest at 104 F or 40 C activates glucanase , which breaks down gummy beta-glucans in the mash, making the sugars flow out more freely later in the process.

From here

Andrew

 

[Ross]

Thanks Andrew, that was the one i was thinking of.
Will it actually cut down the body of the final beer though, or does it just help the sugars flow more easily in the mash, as it's the final beer that needs thinning?


cheers Ross

 

[AndrewQLD]

Have a look here Ross, byo
Scroll down the page a bit there's a section on beta glucan rest, by the sounds of things it will thin out the beer as well.

 

[muckanic]

Will it actually cut down the body of the final beer though, or does it just help the sugars flow more easily in the mash, as it's the final beer that needs thinning?

I have my doubts how much soluble beta-glucan (as distinct from soluble protein) actually makes it into the final brew, after allowing for any hydrolysis during fermentation, precipitation, etc. That roggenbier I described in #106 is not especially viscous in the glass despite being quite viscous in the boiler. (For the record, it was Weyermann rye malt and Wicked Elf yeast). This contrasts with other reports of brews that received no protein rest and apparently drink like liquid treacle.

So, I reckon a protein rest is enough to solve the sparging problem, any base pils malt will do, but the trade-off is less final body. I would speculate that if I had used Galaxy instead of Franklin malt with the same 40C-ish rest that I may have dodged my boiler problems with the yellow oil. Of course, a lower density electric element might not have been a bad idea either! I am assuming here that neither Franklin nor Weyermann rye malt contain significant glucanase enzymes. Galaxy certainly behaves differently. The mash liquifies and sweetens at 40C, a full 10C below where I am used to seeing that occur. The pH in untreated soft water also drops from 5.5 to closer to 5.0.

 

[Ross]

Have a look here Ross, byo
Scroll down the page a bit there's a section on beta glucan rest, by the sounds of things it will thin out the beer as well.

thanks Andrew - looks like it may be the answer

cheers Ross

 

[yardy]

been awhile since i had a roggen on tap, forgot just how good they are

Floggen ya Roggen

2.500 Rye
1.600 Munich
1.400 Pils
0.150 Carared
0.150 Crystal
0.080 Carafa ll

30gm Australian Tettnang @ 60
15gm Australian Tettnang @ 10

K-97 @ 20*C

c'mon roggen lovers, post your recipes up

cheers

 

[Tony]

Its the next brew on the list. We have a Wheat beer challenge on for the next club meet here but i just finnished a keg of wheat beer. Roggen it is just for something different

Will post the recipe up on here when i decide on it. Still have to check how much Rye i have.

 

[Tony]

Just ran this through the mill. Gunna mash it tomorrow morning.

Making it for the new hunter brew club meet next month. The challenge was a Wheat but i want more

Im going a double decoction to really make it hard to sparge...... nothing like break in a clag glue mash!

wish me luck!

And 54 liters........... i will have about 6 inches of head space.......... im gunna need a blow off tube on this one!

Oh...... yardy.......... i cant find the pack of K-97, but i do have 3068 so this it is

cheers







Roggenbier

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 54.00 Wort Size (L): 54.00
Total Grain (kg): 12.15
Anticipated OG: 1.054 Plato: 13.28
Anticipated EBC: 30.1
Anticipated IBU: 16.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
41.2 5.00 kg. Pale Rye Malt 1.034 8
28.8 3.50 kg. Weyermann Wheat Dark Germany 1.037 18
24.7 3.00 kg. Weyermann Bohemien Pils GErmany 1.038 4
2.5 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carabohemien Germany 1.034 200
1.6 0.20 kg. Crystal Rye 1.031 210
1.2 0.15 kg. Weyermann Choc Wheat Germany 1.035 1100


Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
70.00 g. Saphire Pellet 4.50 14.7 45 min.
20.00 g. Saphire Pellet 4.50 2.3 15 min.
30.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 6.30 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

 

[mika]

.....
2.5 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carabohemien Germany 1.034 200
....

So what's with this stuff Tony ? As in, what's it do for the beer ?

 

[Tony]

Its very similar to caraaroma.......... just 200EBC. ITs deeply malty, less sweet than a crystal, but not as dry as caraamber.

Id call it a pale caraaroma. very nice stuff.

i wanted to use 500g of crystal rye but only had 200g in stock. This was the next malt in line.

cheers

Edit.......... im on my 2nd 1kg bag...... when this one is gone im getting this stuff in 5kg lots! I love it.

 

[BrenosBrews]

So what's with this stuff Tony ? As in, what's it do for the beer ?

Just wanted to add my seconding of Carabohemian malt. I've used it in a couple of American Red Ales so far and it's been great. Malty without being too sweet just like Tony said. An awesome specialty malt.

 

[goomboogo]

So what's with this stuff Tony ? As in, what's it do for the beer ?

It's versatile stuff. I've got 3% carabohemian and 3% caraamber in a Belgian Pale that's on tap at the moment. I'd go with Tony's description. It's definitely added nice background support in this beer.