Roggenbier

[Tony]

Well a roggenbier will be born tomorrow in tamworth

I hava researched, asked questions on here and elswere and googled all i could but found very limited info or advice on the subjust of german rye beers.

I will use this thread to keep anyone interested in the style up to date with the progress and flavours of the beer

I have no idea what it will taste like :blink:

I have learnt enough in the last few months of research to come up with a fair recipe i think.

Roggenbier

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 46.00 Wort Size (L): 46.00
Total Grain (kg): 12.00
Anticipated OG: 1.053 Plato: 13.07
Anticipated EBC: 31.2
Anticipated IBU: 18.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
41.7 5.00 kg. TF Pale Rye Malt UK 1.034 8
25.0 3.00 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 7
16.7 2.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 15
10.0 1.20 kg. Rice Hulls Australia 1.000 0
5.0 0.60 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 1.036 100
1.7 0.20 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special I Germany 1.036 950

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.20 10.1 60 min.
45.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 4.20 5.6 15 min.
45.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 4.20 2.3 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.10 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen




I just cracked the grain for it.

I wet the barley malt and cracked as normal at 0.9 mm gap. Perfect crack, nice whole husks and well crushed grains.

Tipped the rye into the mills hopper and had a good look at it. Its a long and thin grain.... I turne un the mill and ran about 200g through and stopped it to check the crush.

It was fairly fine, most of the grains were broken up, but only into like 2 or 3 bits and about 1/5 were still whole. mmmmmm 50% efficiency here we come :angry:

So i ran it all through like this and tipped it back into the hopper and ran it through again.

Ahhhh thats better, its a fine crush with no more whole grains. I figure if i have as much rice hulls in as i do, a fine crack with the rye will be ok. I am after a rye character so a course crack would be useless.

any way, i will take some pics of the mash and keep it updated with progress reports on the beer.

I mat enter it into the NSW state champs if its any good.

cheers

 

[Trent]

Good luck with it Tony
I have read that Rye is a little difficult to work with, but I think that you are well on top of it with all them rice hulls. Keep us apdated as to how it goes, would love to hear how it tastes. I have 3 nights in Germany later this year, so would like to know if this style would be worth searching out, or skipping! Always good to see people willing to give the unusual styles a go, just to see what they taste like, and a double batch no less :super: Full points to you
Trent

 

[Tony]

well just finished mashing and is now running to the kettle.

The wort has a consistancy i have never seen.

It is like brown velvet syrup. Its creamy.

I needed more rice hulls too. Its pumping out of the ton, but reeeeeealy slow. Its going to take over an hour to fill the kettle.

Also it smells fantastic, i did a dunkelweizen last week and this smells better. It smells rich and hearty. Cant wait to try this one.

cheers.

Will post some pics tonight.

 

[Tony]

Well i finally got the lot in the firmenter.

This rye malt is no fun to use in large quantities i can tell ya.

I ended up havig to add more rice hulls to get it out of the mash ton. I used 16 liters in the end. 2 liters weighs 200g so thats 1.6 kg of the bloody things.

If any one has seen how many rice hulls you get in 1kg you will apreciate how gluggy this stuff goes.

The wort was silky, thats the only way i can discribe it, when you dipped your finger in it and then sucked it off to taste it, it took 4 goes to get it off your finger !!

I set my efficiency to 75% and ended up with 83%.

Wanted 46L @ 1.053 and got 45L @ 1.060.

Im thinking of leaving it as is and calling it a doppelroggenbier It will be a specialty beer so why watter it down.

firs pic is off the spent grain with all those rice hulls. the second is of how i steralise my pump before i pump to the firmenter. I empyt the mash ton, clean it out and fill it with 10 liters of iodophur solution and circulate it through the pump and lines before i atach it to the cooled kettle to pump the wort to the firmenter.

just thought some may be interested

I did take pics of the mash and decoctions but i stuffed up with the camers and they are 2 Gig files so wont fit on here. They were a didtinct borwn and burgandy color. I have never seen a color like this in a brew and ive done a couple.

cheers floks.

Will keep you posted if your interested...... :unsure:

 

[Tony]

here is the pump steralising

 

[Tony]

Racked it today.

It went from 1.060 to 1.020 in 2 days @ 17 deg and stopped dead!!!

I tipped into a yeast cake from the dunkelweizen brewed before and it took off like a rocket.

The BJCP guidelines say to brew at lower temp to supress esters and it still went faster than i have seen before.

The dunkelweizen went form 1.048 to 1.016 in 3 days and stopped dead too so i think its a problem with the yeast.

It should have gone down to 1.016 at least.

I have ordered a pack of SAF Wheat from ross and will re-hydrate it and chuck it in to see if it will chew it down a bit more.

And the texture. Yess this beer has a TEXTURE. Its more than just a liquid.

It has a slight "syrip" quality to it but not like honey. Its like everything it does is in slow motion. I checked the gravity and the bubbles rising up in the test tube rise at half the speed of a normal beer and it didnt sloosh around in the firmenter when i racked it to secondary, it kind of ran in gently and smoothly.

It has a silky texture in your nouth and a defimate flavor is starting to come through, its going to be a stand out beer for sure.

cheers

 

[Millet Man]

This rye malt is no fun to use in large quantities i can tell ya.

I ended up havig to add more rice hulls to get it out of the mash ton. I used 16 liters in the end. 2 liters weighs 200g so thats 1.6 kg of the bloody things.

If any one has seen how many rice hulls you get in 1kg you will apreciate how gluggy this stuff goes.

Tony,

Jeez, that's about as much rice hulls (per kg of malt) as I use in a gluten free mash, and I have no grain husk at all. :blink:

When it gets that gluggy mash bed depth is real important, any more than 3-4 kg of malt in my 30cm diameter lauter tun and no amount of rice hulls will save you.

I entered a roggenbier in Beerfest this year and it scored real well (6th in specialty section), though it apparently needed more rye character - which is understandable since I made it with malted millet, making it a hirsebier actually.

Sounds like the real thing will be tasty, damn shame.

Interested to hear how it comes out.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[schoey]

Hi Tony,
I'm really interested in roggenbiers but don't have the facilities to do one at the moment, being a extract brewer and all. To me, rye is a hell of an interesting grain, I love rye breads and would love to brew a beer with it. Can't wait to hear how this turns out.

 

[Tony]

bottled it just then.

Its smelling and tasting great.

The gravity finnished a bit high @ 1.020 but it have been assured that sine conciddering what went in it.

It still has its silky smooth mouth feel.

Its a deep copper color and i just hope i got the priming amount right

here are a couple of pics of the bottling process complete with the kids mess in the background and a clear bottle trying to get a shot of the color of it at sunset.

cheers

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

I really like the colour man...not that it really matters...I love that tone in beers...it just looks great! :beerbang:

Well, I didn't really have much to add there, did I?

Still think it looks great tho h34r:

PZ.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

 

[Tony]

well there has been a bit of a following on this little experiment.

I didnt post pics of the mash at the beginning cause my new camera was set a bit fine and the pics were 2 gig files.

Well i got some resizing software so i will stick the pics on now.

I know its just grain and water but i was blown away by the color of it

I have been checking the bottles and the lids dont seem to be getting the pop up "dimple" in the cap to indicate pressure. I hope the yeast wasnt desd when i bottled it. after all this i will be heart broken if it doesnt carb up.

I have a few bottles in my warm laundry. Will giveem another week and ones getting opened.

cheers

 

[kook]

Well you've now inspired me to hunt down some Roggenbier when I'm in Germany later this month

 

[Pumpy]

Tony ,

I love your posts you always post

1) a recipe .
2) plenty of pictures .
3) a Good explanation of what you have done .

You always share your experience for others to try .

Great work mate !!!

Pumpy

 

[Tony]

thanks mate.

tried one last night.

dead flat !!!

oh no..... i think the yeast must have been dead. I remember bulk priming it. I kept 4 bottles in my warm laundry at about 20 to 22 deg since bottling almost 2 weeks ago.

im a bit depressed now.

will give it a month of so and see.

shame if it has to be tipped out.

dejected cheers

 

[warrenlw63]

Tony

If it doesn't carb up you can always get some fresh yeast going and uncap all the bottles, put an eyedropper full in each bottle, recap and store it warm for a few weeks.

It's a real pain to do but will work. Beats tossing the batch down the sink.

Warren -

 

[Weizguy]

if they don't carbonate, I'd suggest pouring them gently into a keg and gassing it up for rapid consumption due to the high likelihood of oxidation.
Depends how much U have in bottles.

I'm happy to assist if you can give me a few days notice. I'll have to visit friends in Armidale or Quirindi while I'm there.

Beerz
Seth

P.S. I haven't made the rauchbier yet, but it's about #3 on my brewlist now. Gotta start the Bavarian lager yeast first. Yum!

 

[warrenlw63]

if they don't carbonate, I'd suggest pouring them gently into a keg and gassing it up for rapid consumption due to the high likelihood of oxidation.
Depends how much U have in bottles.

[post="125046"][/post]​

Weiz.

Michael Jackson says that Ham and Rye bread sandwiches pair well with a Roggenbier.

With your suggestion of pouring the beer into a keg I'd suggest putting some mustard on your fist and inserting it between two slices of Rye. :blink: :lol:

That could be tantamount to ruination. h34r:

Warren -

 

[Weizguy]

What sort of mustard, Warren?

If the beer is flat and warm when decanted gently to the keg, would it still pick up enough oxygen to ruin the beer immediately, or do U have a few days before it starts to taste of cardboard? Hence my offer to assist with rapid consumption.
I've never done this, so I'm keen to hear any facts/opinions you can provide.

Otherwise, I suggest that Tony hangs on to the bottles and maybe places them in a warm room to assist carbonation.

Seth

 

[warrenlw63]

What sort of mustard, Warren?

[post="125083"][/post]​

German!

Is there any other? :lol:

Warren -