Rims Input Needed

[rwmingis]

Just a quick update. Progress is going along well, I have almost completed the heating chamber which is the hardest part of the fabrication portion of the project... I think. I just have to add a drain plug/temp probe fitting on the bottom side of the heating chamber and give whole thing a thorough scrub up.

Was hoping someone could give me a bit of input with regards to the type of fitting that I can use for this plug. I need to have a drain (say half inch ID) so that I can drain the heating chamber of water and any husks when done. Am thinking of putting it at one end of the heating chamber and obviously on the bottom. Since I already have a fitting here, I thought it would also nicely double up as a temperature probe connection as well, see below for what I am thinking of doing.

I could use a standard coupling fitting, like the one show below (which is how i connect the output of the heating chamber to the rest of the system) but it's a bit bulky. It is however, the exact configuration I am looking for as I can just braise the temperature probe where the tube would normally go, and voila.

Does anyone know of a suitable brass fitting and where I could get one?

 

[Spoonta]

try trade link mate

 

[rwmingis]

Well, I think it's time to post an update. 2-1/2 years into it, I've finally started building the thing, to say I've been procrastinating may be a slight understatement. The Christmas break looked like it was going to be a good time to get back into it, 17 days off and all, but I only ended up getting 2 days to myself to tinker during the whole time. It proved just enough to get things going though!

I finalised the design after realising that recirculating during the sparge is not a good idea efficiency-wise. With the old design, in order to keep the level control working, it had to be recirculating, even during the sparge. The new design incorporates a 3-way T-port ball valve that separates the main loop into two loops: the sparge loop and the level control loop. When sparge time comes, i simply throw the 3-way valve to split the loops. The sparge loop will be "Input from Mash Tun" (first connection from left in image below) --> Filter --> Check valve --> 3-way valve --> Flow control valve --> Kettle (second connection from left). The level control loop will be HLT (third connection from left) --> Solenoid valve --> Check valve --> Pump --> Flow control valve --> Heating chamber --> Flow Meter --> "Mash Tun return" (4th connection from left).

After a final revision to the P&ID schematic (attached at the bottom of this post) i finished the drawing and bought a base board. I had been looking for some sort of HDPE or PVC plank forever (this was a large part of the delay) but it's a total rip-off to buy here in Australia. Something like 2-3 hundred bucks to get get something that's the equivalent of a few plastic cutting boards glued together. Didn't feel like shipping from overseas either. So I just bought some 19mm pine panels and glued them together to get 38mm. The extra thickness will provide somewhere to run all the power and control cabling by creating channels on the underside using a router. Neat and tidy.

Here's the final design below:

And the pictures of it starting to come together below:

Still a lot to go, but the 3-way diverter valve (recirc / sparge selector) and the sparge flow control valve come tomorrow, so i'll be making a bit more progress in the near future. Exciting.

Once I get it all together, I'll need to start working on the controls. I've done a bit of embedded programming on microcontrollers (PIC's) in the past, and when the programs get complicated (ie user interface and menus) it gets very time consuming. So I've decided to simplify it by having all the low level control such as communicating with temperature sensors, burst fire control for the element, flow sensor measurement, level control, etc done on the PIC, and then via USB link, have all the high level control such as the user interface, mash control overall, datalogging, and PID done on the laptop in VB since it's much easier. Better to show in a diagram rather than words, but that will come one day soon. There will be manual and automatic control for the system most likely selected by an "Oh sh!t switch".

Anyway, all for now. Just gotta keep it up.

Cheers,

Rob

View attachment P_ID_Rev_H.pdf

 

[raven19]

Noice! Keep those updates coming fella! Looking good, very sharp and compact too.

 

[rwmingis]

Noice! Keep those updates coming fella! Looking good, very sharp and compact too.

Thanks Mr. Raven, that was my main goal (aside from making good beer) which was to make it compact since I live in a shoebox; it's gotta be low enough to slide under the futon.

 

[rwmingis]

Finally tested the whirlpool in the heating chamber, it works! Here's the .

I'm hoping that the whirlpool will keep the flow fast enough over the elements (removed for video) so that they don't scorch the wort. The flow in the 1/2 inch copper line is about 700mm / second and the edge of the whirl pool would be moving somewhere near that speed. If it was along the element, then it's something like 25 mm/s, almost 30 times slower. The way i see it, if the flow is along the element, the same bit of wort is touching the element the whole time in the chamber which get's it a lot hotter than the wort around the edges. It's a lot more efficient this way.

Ignore the dodgy brazing job at the inlet, jeeeez it's REALLY hard to silver solder something with so much mass as the end fitting. Had to put it over the gas burner and then put the map gas torch on it for about 5 minutes. Painful.

Better get back to it.

 

[rwmingis]

Today I ran the system for the first time. I've got the piping all done up from the clear plastic suction inlet all the way up to the discharge of the heating chamber and thought it a good time to run it's first test.

First thing I learned was how important it is to have some kind of valve just above the discharge of the pump so that you can prime it properly. If you supplying the pump with a tank, ie mashtun, with a water level higher than the pump, then you can just open the small valve on the pump discharge until water starts coming out, or if you don't have a low water level, you can use the valve outlet to suck water through the pump until it's flooded.

The pumping system worked nearly perfectly the first time. I even introduced air into the suction, it sputtered, and immediately re-primed once i submerged the suction hose again. The only problem was the gasket between the flange on the heating element and the heating chamber... it leaks a fair bit, a drip every second. I think the problem is that I would really need to crank down on the heating element as it's screwed in, but since it's such a big thread 2 or 2.5 inch, I don't have a wrench anywhere big enough to do this. I could only get it as tight as channel locks permit. I think the real problem is that the supplied gasket is some kind of hard white, probably hi temperature, material, which really needs to be compressed to work properly.

I do have some 3mm EPDM rubber sheet that I used for vibration isolation on the pump mounts. I could easily cut a gasket to suit, and I'm pretty sure this will do the trick, the only problem is will EPDM have a high enough temperature rating? Seeing that the chamber is full of water, I doubt that the metal near the heating element would get much hotter than 100C. Wikipedia states that the maximum air temperature for EPDM is 100-120C, but I was hoping someone out there could provide some practical experience. Any input appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob

 

[razz]

Today I ran the system for the first time. I've got the piping all done up from the clear plastic suction inlet all the way up to the discharge of the heating chamber and thought it a good time to run it's first test.

First thing I learned was how important it is to have some kind of valve just above the discharge of the pump so that you can prime it properly. If you supplying the pump with a tank, ie mashtun, with a water level higher than the pump, then you can just open the small valve on the pump discharge until water starts coming out, or if you don't have a low water level, you can use the valve outlet to suck water through the pump until it's flooded.

The pumping system worked nearly perfectly the first time. I even introduced air into the suction, it sputtered, and immediately re-primed once i submerged the suction hose again. The only problem was the gasket between the flange on the heating element and the heating chamber... it leaks a fair bit, a drip every second. I think the problem is that I would really need to crank down on the heating element as it's screwed in, but since it's such a big thread 2 or 2.5 inch, I don't have a wrench anywhere big enough to do this. I could only get it as tight as channel locks permit. I think the real problem is that the supplied gasket is some kind of hard white, probably hi temperature, material, which really needs to be compressed to work properly.

I do have some 3mm EPDM rubber sheet that I used for vibration isolation on the pump mounts. I could easily cut a gasket to suit, and I'm pretty sure this will do the trick, the only problem is will EPDM have a high enough temperature rating? Seeing that the chamber is full of water, I doubt that the metal near the heating element would get much hotter than 100C. Wikipedia states that the maximum air temperature for EPDM is 100-120C, but I was hoping someone out there could provide some practical experience. Any input appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob

One question on the leak from the RIMS gasket Rob, what temp was the water? If it was ambient temp then I would think that at mash temps the leak will take up with the heat. I have an outlet on my hlt that does this (drips) and stops with some thermal expansion.

 

[rwmingis]

One question on the leak from the RIMS gasket Rob, what temp was the water? If it was ambient temp then I would think that at mash temps the leak will take up with the heat. I have an outlet on my hlt that does this (drips) and stops with some thermal expansion.

Good point, it was at room temperature. I haven't hooked up the element because I want to get an RCD first and I'm not too keen on drips near 240v.

I reckon nice gooey sugary wort would stop the leak over time too!

 

[rwmingis]

Hi Everyone,

Back on this again, slowly but steadily. I have most of the mechanical bits done. Only have to plumb the inlets and outlets to the system to the fittings on the front. Since hard piping this will be quite difficult to do (to make everything line up) I'd like to plumb it using hose. As such, I need to get me some right angle 1/2 inch BSP to 1/2 inch hose tails, like this one:

Does anyone know where I can find these? I have looked all over (the world actually) but not too much luck. I've asked one of our favourite HB shops in Queensland, but no luck there either (the photo shows the one I'm looking for which came from my MT false bottom from there). Any leads would be appreciated.

I'm also looking for a bit of aluminium flat or plate that's 100W x 130L x 3 thk to use as a mount for my inlet strainer. Bunnings doesn't really sell anything this size. THey almost have it in angle section, but I'd have to buy at least a metre of it which is too much. Does anyone know a place to get such a beast or have an offcut willing to share in exchange for a few beers?

I should have some photos of the assembled unit to share in the next few weeks.

Cheers!

Rob

 

[raven19]

Beerbelly have those fittings on their false bottoms:
Linky

Might be worth emailing them.

 

[DWC]

Hi Everyone,

Back on this again, slowly but steadily. I have most of the mechanical bits done. Only have to plumb the inlets and outlets to the system to the fittings on the front. Since hard piping this will be quite difficult to do (to make everything line up) I'd like to plumb it using hose. As such, I need to get me some right angle 1/2 inch BSP to 1/2 inch hose tails, like this one:

Does anyone know where I can find these? I have looked all over (the world actually) but not too much luck. I've asked one of our favourite HB shops in Queensland, but no luck there either (the photo shows the one I'm looking for which came from my MT false bottom from there). Any leads would be appreciated

Nova distributors in Newcastle have them, about $5 from memory.
Cheers

Dave

 

[rwmingis]

Thanks guys, I'll give those suppliers a go.

Wally, I was going to use that arrangement, but the two hosetail tips would touch for each end of the hose due to the short length of run. If I can't find the single piece ones, I'll have to use your arrangement and trim the tips. That might work fine actually...

Rob

 

[Tim F]

Would these ones from CB do it?

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1158

 

[rwmingis]

Would these ones from CB do it?

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1158

YES they would! That's the one I had. I'll get me a second one. I didn't realise that they were only 3/8 inch, but will suit the sparge line since it's just a trickle.

Wally, you're concept was a winner, that's what I'm doing for the other ones. Thanks!

Rob

 

[hsb]

I think I've got a spare one of those lying around - I'm up in Kingsford, work in Randwick... Not certain on the barb size but it's definitely too small for 1/2" silicone tubing, so maybe no use to you??
You're welcome to grab it - or I could probably stick in the post at work. It's just a leftover from something or other, a false bottom maybe. It is just the one though.

 

[rwmingis]

I think I've got a spare one of those lying around - I'm up in Kingsford, work in Randwick... Not certain on the barb size but it's definitely too small for 1/2" silicone tubing, so maybe no use to you??
You're welcome to grab it - or I could probably stick in the post at work. It's just a leftover from something or other, a false bottom maybe. It is just the one though.

Sounds great, thanks! I'll PM you just now.

Rob

 

[rwmingis]

IT WORKS!

Well I've finally finished the hardware side of this thing, I didn't realise how much work this project would be be! It feels so good to have this bit done now, it was really hard work and time consuming too. I think what made it so difficult was trying to fit everything with so much accuracy over short spaces (ie lining things up with threaded fittings, etc.). I think next time I'll just used stainless tubing and be done with it, probably would have saved money too with all the trial and error! Anyway, thanks for all the help from those that gave input, it has made this thing a better product by far.

I've done a dry (wet) run and it seems to work well. I designed it for 4 L/min as that's what I've heard on the forums as the max flow you typically see without getting a compacted grain bed. First tests give me 6L per minute, so pretty chuffed (upgrading to a 815 march pump impeller from an 809 helped). Those screwed fittings are quite hard to make leak proof I tell ya. Under mains pressure, it gets a few drips from a few joints, but under pump pressure there's no leaks, so I think it's good enough. I just need to do all the electrics and program it up. Shouldn't be too hard as it can be done from the couch and not my make shift shop spread over 5 rooms! I'll share my electrical and controls design for a bit of constructive criticism soon if you guys are willing to give it.

I've included a few pic's below:

The finished Base

Plan view on top of final assembly

Looks just like the model

Front view

Left view

Right view

Cable ducts on the bottom (router comes in quite handy on this project)

Handholds in the sides of the base are a must, this thing weights a tonne!

 

[raven19]

Now to brew with it!

Very nice. Any drips of wort will make that timber nice and sticky.

 

[hsb]

Looks great Rob, just don't go trying to take it on any planes! Looks like a 'device'!!
How does it fit together with your other gear, is that similarly compact?

Being so compact, looks like a 'BobMeister' has been born!

Like the sight tube to see that there's flow, and the built-in filter.

As raven said - Now to brew with it!