Reverse Flow Braumeister Clone

[Vanoontour]

Hey All,

I've been thinking about making the move to an electric brewery and not sure whether to go 3V HERMs or a Braumeister Clone type. I currently brew 3V gravity.

Anyway, all brewing, with the exception of the Braumeister flow the wort from the top of the grain bed to the bottom and out the mash tun. So why does the BM reverse this? I would think that after a mash cycle on the BM when you remove the malt pipe as the grain slides back down the pipe it would make your wort cloudy again.

So this got me thinking, what would be the flaws in making a BM clone but having the wort flow from top to bottom. The pump suction would be from under the malt pipe and returning to a standard sparge dish on top of the grain bed. This would allow your malt pipe to have a fixed false bottom and not one on the top.

Thoughts why this wouldn't work?

 

[lael]

I think QldKev tried a system like this - or it might have been someone else. But I think the reverse flow means that you have more chance of bed compaction, as well as making it harder to set and forget - there is always the chance it gets stuck, and then has issues. Reverse flow deals with a lot of that. as for the cloudiness... I'm not sure to be honest. From reading posts around the place I think ppl who have tried have found that a top to bottom recirculating works fine - but has to be monitored tended to for it to work.

 

[tallie]

As lael said, if you reversed the flow, the bed would likely compact. If the liquid ends up too low on the top filter during pumping, I would also imagine that sucking it would promote channelling down the sides.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The idea of the Braumeister flowing from bottom to top is that it is the most logical to force pressure up through the grain easily and recirculate down the side back into the pump, the wort stays clear and does not cloud up when the process is complete, also how could it work in reverse, the bottom of the braumeister is where the thrust comes from, it can't go anywhere but up through the grain bed.
Unlike a lot of things that the Germans come up with they have kept this design simple, the only things I have had to do to improve their design is make an"O" ring for the top which can move up with the grain and some trim around the 3 feet.
I think if I was going to build something on a similar line I would keep it just as their design

 

[Dan Pratt]

the only things I have had to do to improve their design is make an"O" ring for the top which can move up with the grain and some trim around the 3 feet.

hey wide eyed,

My BM has both of those items, a seal around the top filter and screen that secures it when put them into the malt pipe and with pressure moves up towards the cross bar. plus it has the rubber trim on the leg edges.

You can get the right stuff from Clarke Rubber for both the top plate seal and the legs.

For the OP, the germans made it run vertically through the grain as it theleast path or resistence and its perfect that way. You wont regret it, so start saving your money

 

[QldKev]

My 1V is a "NORMAL FLOW", it's the brau systems which are reverse. I say top to bottom is normal because that is what normal mash tuns do. The 1V approach is no different for mash bed compaction than normal systems. My 1V rocks, it's a fun system to brew on. The brau flow is also a great setup, and either system designed correctly will make excellent beer.



edit: of my 1V

 

[Vanoontour]

My 1V is a "NORMAL FLOW", it's the brau systems which are reverse. I say top to bottom is normal because that is what normal mash tuns do. The 1V approach is no different for mash bed compaction than normal systems. My 1V rocks, it's a fun system to brew on. The brau flow is also a great setup, and either system designed correctly will make excellent beer.



edit: of my 1V

That is what I was thinking of QldKev. What efficiency do you get? I'm guessing the grain bed doesn't compact to much and relies on gravity to flow the wort through the bed. This is basically what I'm after....I think.

What size element do you have?

 

[seamad]

What you're really after is a normal RIMS mash tun set up with a removable insert for the grain. Would be pretty simple to make. 1 big pot with a smaller grain pot with a false bottom fitted sitting on a stand. Having had both systems I don't think there is really a lot of difference, albeit you have to start off the down system a little slower to avoid compaction ( compaction still happens with an up system too).
The plumbing would be easier for the down. Having used the blichmann false bottom a few times I think it would work very well in this type of application.
Have to say that so far I'm happy with my switch from single batch 1 vessel to double batch 3V RIMS as I can mash whilst the first brew is in the kettle, meaning for a little extra time and not much more cleaning I get 4 X as much beer

 

[QldKev]

That is what I was thinking of QldKev. What efficiency do you get? I'm guessing the grain bed doesn't compact to much and relies on gravity to flow the wort through the bed. This is basically what I'm after....I think.

What size element do you have?

I'm getting 85% to 87% pre-boil eff. I did initially have a couple of issues with the water level getting a bit high, on some mashes. I ended up drilling some extra holes in the bottom for more flow and reducing the initial strike water volume, and it has resolved it 100%. The element is a Uxcell 2,000w one, you do need plenty of insulation to get a decent boil. Have a look at my photobucket folder for more ideas. I did initially have a pizza tray false bottom and swiss voile bag, so you may see a couple of pictures mixed in of them, but the 19L BigW pot is easier. In this picture you will see the bucket sitting in it's drain position.

 

[berto]

Hey Kev,
What's the minimum volume you can run on your system with the 5.5kg of grain (I assume this is max?). I'm trying to work out a system similar to what you've got, but want to know what the max SG is I can get out of it after running it as you normally would. Hoping for something in the 1.100 range, but any advice would be great.
Would you run a similar element again or go for a bottom mount element allowing for a slightly lower volume during the mash?
Do you essentially fly sparge your system at the end or no sparge?
What proportion keg do you use, Lion or CUB?



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[QldKev]

Hey Kev,
What's the minimum volume you can run on your system with the 5.5kg of grain (I assume this is max?). I'm trying to work out a system similar to what you've got, but want to know what the max SG is I can get out of it after running it as you normally would. Hoping for something in the 1.100 range, but any advice would be great.
Would you run a similar element again or go for a bottom mount element allowing for a slightly lower volume during the mash?
Do you essentially fly sparge your system at the end or no sparge?
What proportion keg do you use, Lion or CUB?



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Not sure what the minimum volume would be, I never brew high gravity beers. Smallest I've mashed in with is 25L, but the system could mash in with less. You could always invert/caramelize some sugar in another pot for the bigger beers. My typical brews on this system is 28L and 1.040 to 1.045.

I'm happy with the location of the element, but moving from the 2000w to 2200 or even 2400w would help a bit. But the 2000w does the job fine with heaps of pot insulation. In your case an element that wraps around the pot would allow a smaller water volume and a higher gravity be achieved.

I "hose sparge" this system. Basically lift the basket into the drain position, and let it drain. Then I pour water straight from the hose (yes cold) over the grain to get my desired pre-boil volume, allowing it will keep draining from the grain for a while.

I used the shorter wider keg.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

hey wide eyed,

My BM has both of those items, a seal around the top filter and screen that secures it when put them into the malt pipe and with pressure moves up towards the cross bar. plus it has the rubber trim on the leg edges.

You can get the right stuff from Clarke Rubber for both the top plate seal and the legs.

For the OP, the germans made it run vertically through the grain as it theleast path or resistence and its perfect that way. You wont regret it, so start saving your money

Pratty,Tried to get silicone seal strip for the top screens from Clarke Rubber in Moorabbin but they didn't have silicone, which Clarke Rubber store did yo go to?
I see on the Pommie sites they use silicone edge strips for the top filters but they are fiddly to put on that's why I have gone with a silicone "O" ring keeps all the floaties in with the grain and can move up and down with the filter.

 

[Dan Pratt]

The ones I have are black rubber that the BM supplier in Newcastle gave me, these are not silicon. I will call into Clark rubber and get a product code for the filter seal and a picture uploaded in the next week or so.