RecipeDB - DrSmurto's Landlord

[hazard]

I've made 2 lots of landlord now, the first was partial mash and extract but the second was AG. I have been really enjoying the AG brew, albeit with 2 small changes to Smurto's recipe:
- I added Styrian hops and EKG as FWH rather than as late hops
- I deleted the small amount of chocolate malt, and reduced 1L of first runnings in a pan before adding to kettle to get the caramel effect.

This has been one of my best ales to date, and my mates like it as well.

AND THEN

Purvis Celalrs got the original TTL in stock last week. I bought a slab to test against my brew. And - the TTL blew mine away!!

The TTL had much more depth to the late hop flavour - mine tasted the same except it appeard dilute in comparison. Also, the TTL had a distinct caramel undertone. Although i reduced the wort, I didn't achieve this - there was another thread about this recently that concluded that reducing the wort in a pan may result in melanoiden production, but doesn't really caramelise the maltose. My taste test backs this up. And, the TTL was darker - something I didn't expect.

So well done Timothy Taylor - this is a highly impressive beer. But, if TTL is 100% golden promise, where does the caramel flavour come from? Why is it darker than mine, which includes munich malt (0.5kg) and reduced wort? Does Timmy do a real long boil on the whole kettle? Or are they actually adding some crystal to the kettle? Regardless, it's brilliant, try some if you can.

Note - this is NOT a criticism of Smurto's recipe. As stated above I was very happy weith outcomes, and many others have confirmed this. I'm sure any failings in my brew are due to my own brewing technique (this is my 3rd AG) and there are lots of other variables involved that will make a difference. But I do want to experiment with wort reduction (maybe do 4 L rather than 1 L ) and ULH to get that depth of hops flavour and caramelly taste that TTL exhibits.

 

[felten]

If you read earlier in the thread(iirc) there's mention that they darken with brewers caramel, which is common for english beers. that or they kiln their golden promise to a higher degree.

anyway, TTL has won a zillion awards since its inception, so they must be doing something right

i'm planning this as my first AG brew, as soon as my falsie/malt arrives, should be a cracker. i'm originally from england but i've never actually had an english beer :X

 

[drsmurto]

Constructive criticisms are always welcome Hazard!

Agree, TTL is an amazing beer, very malty with that caramel/toffee note to it as well as the subtle styrian aroma. And yet, it finishes dry. Its my holy grail and one i enjoy repeating even if i am still a way off.

The addition of a handpump (fingers crossed) to my bar in late October reminds me i need to get another batch on soon.....

Next step is to boil down some 1st runnings, add some caraaroma instead of choc and make some slight adjustments to the hopping (ie. wind the late hopping back).

Lots of musings about TTL, what it's apparently made with. I suspect that no-one here actually knows but its fun speculating nonetheless.

FWIW, my vote is for 100% GP with a portion of that turned into a crystal malt to get the colour/flavour. Either that or they get the GP kilned to a near Vienna malt spec....... h34r:

 

[buttersd70]

FWIW, my vote is for 100% GP with a portion of that turned into a crystal malt to get the colour/flavour. Either that or they get the GP kilned to a near Vienna malt spec....... h34r:

I thought I saw your brain ticking over the other night...

Are you going to try it with the softer water?

 

[muckey]

probably trying to work out how to get away from butters.

back to topic, rather that using a proportion of the malt to make their own crystal couldn't they just be decocting it or using some type of heating method that does caramalise a proportion of the mash?

 

[Scruffy]

It's deffo Golden Promise. Just not sure about their secret kilning or boiling processes - I've enjoyed a few attempts as it rarely produces a naff beer. I'll return to attempting to nail Landlord soon, but have a Nelson Sauvin/Amarillo/Cascade itch to scratch...

 

[drsmurto]

I thought I saw your brain ticking over the other night...

Are you going to try it with the softer water?

The vienna comment comes from one of several musings with Voosher back in the Grumpys days when i drove past the place to and from work every day. Had to drop in for a pint, be rude not to.

Amongst the myriad of theories we came up with was the tongue in cheek comment from Voosher that i sub the darker kilned Munich malt in to get more oomph so why not try straight Vienna.

We may or may not have been sampling purified 'water' at the time........

Never got around to trying it out but its still on my to do list.

As for the water, the bitter i made on the weekend had a very small amount of CaCO3 added but will use straight rainwater on the next batch (with maybe a bit of CaCl2 - am a bit wary about brewing with 0 ppm of Ca)

 

[jbirbeck]

probably trying to work out how to get away from butters.

back to topic, rather that using a proportion of the malt to make their own crystal couldn't they just be decocting it or using some type of heating method that does caramalise a proportion of the mash?

I tried a decoction with my latest bitter and it hasn't added noticeable colour or any hint of caramelly flavours. Perhaps I didn't boil it enough...

 

[Scruffy]

Water quality report - Keighley 2009
Substance Typical value UK/European limit Unit
Calcium 18.2750 - mg Ca/l
Magnesium 1.7800 - mg Mg/l
Residual chlorine - free 0.19 - mg/l Cl2
Residual chlorine - total 0.24 - mg/l Cl2
Coliforms 0 0 no/100ml
E-coli 0 0 no/100ml
Aluminium 18.231 200 g Al/l
Colour 1.33 20 mg/l Pt/Co Scale
Conductivity 139.10 2500 S/cm
Fluoride 0.054 1.5 mg F/l
pH (Hydrogen Ion Conc.) 7.90 6.5 - 10.0 pH Units
Iron 28.63 200 g Fe/l
Manganese 2.31 50 g Mn/l
Nitrate 2.4843 50 mg NO3/l
Nitrite 0.0093 0.5 mg NO2/l
Sodium 8.80 200 mg Na/l
Turbidity 0.145 4 NTU
Copper 0.0149 2 mg Cu/l
Lead 8.101 25 g Pb/l

Report last updated: 16/04/2009 16:06:44

HTH.

 

[Scruffy]

Soft innit?- i can see how it would suit a pale...

 

[drsmurto]

It is soft and i have had discussions with Butters and a few others about the type of water used in some breweries in yorkshire.

Bribie has a water report that also shows how soft the water used by 1 specific brewery.

It does get you thinking though, if the water used in brewing is that soft what, if any, modifications are they doing to it.

Will just have to bite the bullet and use rainwater without any mods.

 

[warra48]

Any chance of someone interpreting that water analysis into something resembling the BeerSmith format?
I'm no scientist, and plead ignorance on chemistry.
My working life was spent in insurance and law.

 

[drsmurto]

That water report only contains the Ca and Mg figures, the others important to brewing are missing.

The Ca and Mg numbers match the ones i received, i'll leave it up to the owners to cough them up if they want to.

But, the key message is that the profile is much MUCH softer than the published yorkshire profiles, closer to a Pilsen profile...... Melbourne water is pretty close to these figures (from the data i have seen).

 

[Scruffy]

So they take soft water, filter it then add stuff?

 

[michaelcocks]

This is the discussion topic for the recipe: DrSmurto's Landlord

Hi Dr Smurto

Re th TTL recip...

Any chance of a recipe for us poor extract brewers (or I can do partial if I find time !!!) ?

I tried using beersmith and Ken Schwartz document covert_mash_to _extract - But got terribly confused.

Can you get MO or GP in an extract can (or dried?) Or should I just use a Coopers Pale and Partial Mash the other half of the BAse Malt with MO or GP?

BTW I just did the extract version of the Dr Smurton Golden Ale - OMG that is just the best...

Many Thanks

Michael

 

[buttersd70]

Michael.
The Schwarz article is excellent, but t can be a bit confusing...

Couple of bits of info needed: What will your (maximum) boil size be; and, if you do a partial, what is the maximum weight of grain you are capable of comfortably mashing?

 

[michaelcocks]

Michael.
The Schwarz article is excellent, but t can be a bit confusing...

Couple of bits of info needed: What will your (maximum) boil size be; and, if you do a partial, what is the maximum weight of grain you are capable of comfortably mashing?

I have 19l pot ( only really fits 16-17l usable)
Could handle about 3-4KG of grain.
Have esky (25L

Cheers

Michael

 

[buttersd70]

I have 19l pot ( only really fits 16-17l usable)
Could handle about 3-4KG of grain.
Have esky (25L

Cheers

Michael

Should be easy then. (edit: for a partial. A bit hard for full extract, as 99% of the malt flavour is base grain.)....here you go.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 13.46 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 19.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 33.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.50 kg LME, post bol (6.9 EBC) Extract 42.3 %
1.50 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas FaGrain 42.3 %
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 14.1 %
0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (100Grain 1.4 %
40.00 gm Fuggles [3.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.8 IBU
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10%] (20 minHops 12.3 IBU
28.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60%] (0 min) Hops -


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 2.05 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Sach rest Add 5.00 L of water at 73.7 C 65.0 C 40 min
Mash out Add 5.00 L of water at 94.1 C 78.0 C 40 min


Notes:
------
AG BG 1034, volumes: 25.88 boil /20L batch, 32.9 IBU, 1045 OG
PM BG 1034, volumes: 13.46 boil /20L batch, 33.1 IBU 1046 OG

Should require 10L topup to achieve 20L. Have not accounted for any kettle losses, other than

evaporation and cooling.

IBU dependent on actual hop alpha. If need to adjust for hop alpha, leave the weights for the later

additions alone; only adjust the 60min weight until IBU matches.

Have subbed TF Golden promise for marris otter; if using MO, just use the same weight....personally, I

think the GP would give the better result. 2c.


heres the BSM (if you use beersmith, or for others that want it):
View attachment michaelcocks_ttl.bsm

 

[michaelcocks]

Should be easy then. (edit: for a partial. A bit hard for full extract, as 99% of the malt flavour is base grain.)....here you go.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 13.46 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 19.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 33.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.50 kg LME, post bol (6.9 EBC) Extract 42.3 %
1.50 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas FaGrain 42.3 %
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 14.1 %
0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (100Grain 1.4 %
40.00 gm Fuggles [3.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.8 IBU
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10%] (20 minHops 12.3 IBU
28.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60%] (0 min) Hops -


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 2.05 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Sach rest Add 5.00 L of water at 73.7 C 65.0 C 40 min
Mash out Add 5.00 L of water at 94.1 C 78.0 C 40 min


Notes:
------
AG BG 1034, volumes: 25.88 boil /20L batch, 32.9 IBU, 1045 OG
PM BG 1034, volumes: 13.46 boil /20L batch, 33.1 IBU 1046 OG

Should require 10L topup to achieve 20L. Have not accounted for any kettle losses, other than

evaporation and cooling.

IBU dependent on actual hop alpha. If need to adjust for hop alpha, leave the weights for the later

additions alone; only adjust the 60min weight until IBU matches.

Have subbed TF Golden promise for marris otter; if using MO, just use the same weight....personally, I

think the GP would give the better result. 2c.


heres the BSM (if you use beersmith, or for others that want it):
View attachment 29952

Thanks Heaps Butters ...

 

[buttersd70]

Thanks Heaps Butters ...

No worries, mate. Just don't forget to change the AA to whatever your current batch of hops are, then adjust the 60min addition to give the right IBU.

I went with no kettle losses, cos most many partial brewers are 'tip the lot in' types....if you whirlpool and syphon, leaving the trub behind, you'll need to make adjustments for loss to trub in your volumes. (some AG brewers are dirty 'tip the lot in' types too. h34r: ).