Problem With My Js Golden Ale Clone

[Alouyius Phlegm]

So I borrowed from Dr Smurto's Golden Ale Clone....

Can of Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1kg Dry wheat malt Extract
25g Amarillo 10g at 15, 10g at 5, 5g dry hopped at rack (this is the borrowed bit, less Amarillo)
Yeast Us05

It spent 10 days in Primary; 5 days at secondary and dry hopped.

Brewed 5/4/08 OG 1040

10/4 my son spilled 5 litres on the floor by opening the fermenter tap (larf o how we larfed)
15/4 racked to Secondary and added dry hops
20/4 bottled used Coopers carbonation drops into stubbies

FG was 1010 or so....

Anyway after 10 days (30/4) I opened a stubby and there was no carbonation at all. So, I opened another one - nothing;

Left it alone, chilled one yesterday (18/5 - a month after bottling) and opened it - nothing; no carbonation.

See the thing is it has real promise of tasting great, but needs carbonation. At the moment the lack of carbonation is similar to what happens to softdrink when opened and left in the fridge for a couple of weeks while you're on holiday. Tastes similar to how it should, but not quite there.

So, what could have happened? Was racking a mistake and I've left no yeasties for the bottle conditioning? Will it somehow rescue itself in another couple of months? None of my other brews have been a problem in carbonation stakes.....

Any thoughts are welcome, welcome, welcome.... Thanks in advance

 

[itguy1953]

FG was 1010 or so....

Anyway after 10 days (30/4) I opened a stubby and there was no carbonation at all. So, I opened another one - nothing;

Left it alone, chilled one yesterday (18/5 - a month after bottling) and opened it - nothing; no carbonation.


Where did you leave the bottles after you capped them? It has been very cold lately in southern Victoria, and if you have left the bottles outside, then the chances are that the US05 has gone to sleep. Being an ale yeast, US05 needs temp of 18degC plus to ferment properly.

Maybe bring some (or all) of the bottles inside and keep them in the kitchen or another room that will be above 18degC for prolonged periods each day. Shake the bottles when you bring them in, so you get the yeast back into suspension, and maybe shake them again after they warm up (say after 24 hours of being inside). Give the bottles a good shake, as your yeast might be in a tight cake on the bottom of the bottle.

Leave the bottles inside for 7 days and crack one to see if the carbonation has improved.

Barry

 

[Tyred]

From the sounds of it there shouldn't be any problems. With that mixture of ingredients, the yeast should still be able to carbonate your brew. What have the temperatures been like recently ? If they're low, then it may take longer to carbonate. Although after a month, you should start to see some effects (unless the temperatures have been below 15 degrees C).

If it's not that, then the only thing I can think of is that the seal on the stubbies wasn't good enough. Do any of the stubbies have a slight dimple (raised outwards) in the middle ? That, for me, indicates carbonation has occurred.

 

[Alouyius Phlegm]

FG was 1010 or so....

Anyway after 10 days (30/4) I opened a stubby and there was no carbonation at all. So, I opened another one - nothing;

Left it alone, chilled one yesterday (18/5 - a month after bottling) and opened it - nothing; no carbonation.


Where did you leave the bottles after you capped them? It has been very cold lately in southern Victoria, and if you have left the bottles outside, then the chances are that the US05 has gone to sleep. Being an ale yeast, US05 needs temp of 18degC plus to ferment properly.

Maybe bring some (or all) of the bottles inside and keep them in the kitchen or another room that will be above 18degC for prolonged periods each day. Shake the bottles when you bring them in, so you get the yeast back into suspension, and maybe shake them again after they warm up (say after 24 hours of being inside). Give the bottles a good shake, as your yeast might be in a tight cake on the bottom of the bottle.

Leave the bottles inside for 7 days and crack one to see if the carbonation has improved.

Barry

Okey dokey then, here goes. The bottles have been inside and most days my house is pretty warm, I'd say in the late teens/early 20s (wife and kids gets pretty cold you know). The bottles spent a week in this sort of temp prior to being placed into a cupboard (inside) but probably a bit colder than the rest of the house.... The bottle caps are pretty flat, though I've got access to a lever capper and a mate and myself have used it for about a dozen brews and this is the only one where carbonation is a problem. I have brought a few stubbies out of the cupboard and will give a shake and place in a very warm spot for the next week and see if there's a difference..... thanks

 

[itguy1953]

Okey dokey then, here goes. The bottles have been inside and most days my house is pretty warm, I'd say in the late teens/early 20s (wife and kids gets pretty cold you know). The bottles spent a week in this sort of temp prior to being placed into a cupboard (inside) but probably a bit colder than the rest of the house.... The bottle caps are pretty flat, though I've got access to a lever capper and a mate and myself have used it for about a dozen brews and this is the only one where carbonation is a problem. I have brought a few stubbies out of the cupboard and will give a shake and place in a very warm spot for the next week and see if there's a difference..... thanks

Watch that you do not get the brew too hot. Keep it under 25degC, or else the ale yeast can make funny flavours.

Another thing to remember is that yeast will not ferment sugars unless they are dissolved in the beer. If you did not give your beer a good shake after bottling, a lot of sugar could be sitting on the bottom of the bottle. The warmer the beer the easier it is for sugar to dissolve in it.

A good idea for this time of year in Southern Victoria is to switch to lager yeasts. The Safale US05 needs heating this time of year, whereas Saflager s23 or W34/70 do not. The lager yeasts will still ferment at close to 0degC, and they ideally should be kept under 12degC. The lager yeast will ferment more slowly, and often take up to 2 weeks to complete and they will take 3-4 weeks to ferment in the bottle if left outside.

If you need more beer faster, buy another fermenter, do up two ales (inside in the warm or heat them if left outside), bottle/keg them off, and then start doing two lagers.

Build up your stock of lagers for summer, as they are impossible to do when the temp gets high, unless you invest in a lager fridge.

Barry

 

[drsmurto]

From memory i used a tin of coopers wheat malt extract instead of the dry wheat extract. This is because the liquid wheat extract is actually 50/50 wheat/barley so the end result is ~25% wheat malt which is similar to JSGA.

That aside, i have never used carb drops. Since you have a 2nd fermenter to rack into i would suggest bulk priming with dextrose at a rate of 180g per 23L.

As for using a lager yeast, that adds a whole new boatload of issues which you may be ready for. If not, i would suggest using nottingham instead of US05 as it can happily ferment away at temps as low as 14C.

Cheers
DrSmurto

 

[chemacky]

This happened to a ginger beer of mine, moved a few inside, and they carbed up nicely. This sounds a little more fishy than that though...
Just wondering what temp you fermented primary at?

i used a tin of coopers wheat malt extract

This is the liquid stuff right?

 

[drsmurto]

Yup, 1.5kg of liquid extract.

 

[Alouyius Phlegm]

Thanks for the responses guys...

Yeah, had tried to get the liquid wheat malt, as in the recipe, but HBS did not have and only had the dry form. Was not too sure of the difference this would make other than needing to use a different amount. HBS gave no indication this may change the end product. Oh well. Also, will from here on through give the bulk priming a run. Clearly, in my original post when I said this is the part I borrowed I meant amended, as all of it was borrowed, just some of it varied. And now I know that the Dry wheat malt is a bit different too.

Anyway, it has been inside in the laundry for 24 hours now. Its quite warm in there, around 22 degrees.

Originally, the brew was fermented at around 20-22.

Am keen for lagering, but would like to bed down some of my current brewing skills (like Carbonation larf) first.

Cheers for the heads up on the other yeast strains too. Hopefully, the warmer environment will kick start some fizz. Really appreciate the help!

 

[boingk]

That recipe looks the goods...on Origin night I was downtown with some mates [read "half the uni"] and they had GS Golden Ale on tap for $3! After the previous pub which was offering Tooheys on the cheap it almost blew my head off. I'm definitely going to brew this now, I can't get the taste out of my mind.

By the by - are you getting any pressure in the bottles?

 

[Noxious]

A friend's band plays at the Lewisham Hotel (Live House) alot recently and they have JSGA on tap also for around $4, my eyes lit up when i saw the tap handle!
Something other than having to buy overpriced 'imported' euro lagers.
Even though it is a 'corporate' ale now it still sure beats the taste of megaswill.
Just thought id add that

 

[Alouyius Phlegm]

That recipe looks the goods...on Origin night I was downtown with some mates [read "half the uni"] and they had GS Golden Ale on tap for $3! After the previous pub which was offering Tooheys on the cheap it almost blew my head off. I'm definitely going to brew this now, I can't get the taste out of my mind.

By the by - are you getting any pressure in the bottles?

all in glass. still doesn't appear to be a rise in the bottle cap, as was suggested as a sign of carbonation.... I will try one Monday as it will have been down a week since re-agitating the bottles and hopefully when the cap's removed it will bubble up some lovely golden ale... Larf, the first time I've ever wanted a weekend to speed by... sacrilege!

 

[Alouyius Phlegm]

CARBONATION.... What a wonderful thing. Couldn't wait the extra day. Placed one in the fridge and have just cracked it. Poured it into a schooner, beautiful head, carbonation ticking along all the way through. It is a very good beer IMHO. Thanks Barry for the suggestion. Am very very happy right at this moment. The taste of this one is fantastic too. Dr Smurto, on the money!!!! Stoked at the moment!!!! Wish I'd put two in the fridge! Thanks all..

 

[chemacky]

Congratulations! Glad to hear you didn't have to tip it down the sink or drink it through a soda stream.

So it's a nice drop, but is it like JS GA?

 

[Alouyius Phlegm]

Congratulations! Glad to hear you didn't have to tip it down the sink or drink it through a soda stream.

So it's a nice drop, but is it like JS GA?

Cheers, see here's the thing... I've just done side by side taste with both Little Creatures Pale and Squires Golden Ale. It looks like the Squires but tastes more similar to the LCPA. To me the LCPA has a fruitiness about it, similar to this brew. The JSGA has less of that and a drier finish. I may be completely of the mark in my assessments of the lcpa and jsga but this brew is more like LCPA if I was pushed. Bloody lovely.

 

[drsmurto]

Thats because the recipe you used is much hoppier than JSGA. Happy to hear you like the result.

Do another one but use cascade and chinook instead. That will be more in line with LCPA.