Pro V Amateur - Who Has The Real Advantage?

[Guysmiley54]

i'm not sure.... do they have a fucktard category ?

Ow... you just got burned!!

 

[the_new_darren]

Can I enter my beers in professional competitions?

Depends on your ethics I guess?

If you are using your brewery to sell alcoholic beverages to the community under licence then I guess you can?

The distinction comes with "individuals" entering beer into a homebrew competitions that was produced on commercial (ie alcoholic beverage for sale to the public) equipment. Those individuals are not homebrewers unless their beer was produced on a completely different set of equipment OR reduced in water.

I imagine that these would be the minimal requirements of the ATO and liquor licencing?

the_new_darren

 

[KillerRx4]

Can I enter my beers in professional competitions?

No. But I can't either. Whats your point?

 

[the_new_darren]

No. But I can't either. Whats your point?

Nicks point is that the OP was Ross, who producers commercially available beer. Ross for whatever reason benowned to him decided to enter a series (aka carpetbomber) of beers into an amateur beer makers competition.

Again, Nicks point is, and should be considered by organisers of amateur homebrewer competitions in Australia,

IF YOUR ARE PRODUCING and SELLING BEER/ALCOHOL ON A COMMERCIAL BASIS THEN YOU DONOT QUALIFY AS AN AMATEUR BREWER.

And to keep this on topic and "keep to the rules":

How many of Ross's FWK won prizes in the Qld comp? (ie those that took one home and fermented it?

I guess that would be the best test of Pro V Amateur!!

Speak up please those that won a prize!!

cheers

the_new_darren

 

[bradsbrew]

Nicks point is that the OP was Ross, who producers commercially available beer. Ross for whatever reason benowned to him decided to enter a series (aka carpetbomber) of beers into an amateur beer makers competition.

Again, Nicks point is, and should be considered by organisers of amateur homebrewer competitions in Australia,

IF YOUR ARE SELLING BEER/ALCOHOL ON A COMMERCIAL BASIS THEN YOU DONOT QUALIFY AS AN AMATEUR BREWER.

And to keep this on topic and "keep to the rules":

How many of Ross's FWK won prizes in the Qld comp? (ie those that took one home and fermented it?

I guess that would be the best test of Pro V Amateur!!

Speak up please those that won a prize!!

cheers

the_new_darren

Darren, I am pretty sure Ross' FWK's are available nationally which makes it a problem at a national comp level. Also the way your statement in bold reads is if some works in a bottlo or bar the cant enter.

Cheers
the_same_brad

edit= for what its worth I think the professional brewery has the upper hand when it comes to brewing the same beer consistently.

 

[the_new_darren]

Hey Brad,

Perhaps it should have read PRODUCES. I will see if its still ok to edit.

cheers_the_new_darren

EDIT: Thats what I was asking. How many others who used the Ross FWK won prizes????

 

[bradsbrew]

Hey Brad,

Perhaps it should have read PRODUCES. I will see if its still ok to edit.

cheers_the_new_darren

EDIT: Thats what I was asking. How many others who used the Ross FWK won prizes????

That is where the problem is, if someone uses a proprietry made FWK and enters a comp will they admit it?

 

[the_new_darren]

The way i see it the FWK will not travel well or cheaply so a "regional" FWK will most probably be competing against other FWK from that very same region. Sure they might do well in a local comp but most probably will not fare at all well at distant locations (hence why I was asking who else won a comp with the Ross FWK or was it just Ross and again referring back to the OP question)

I did notice in a previous thread that Ross mentioned that he wanted "kits" out of Aussie HB competitions but was voted out 1 to 7 by the organising committee????? but he still went ahead and entered??? as himself???. (perhaps he missed the bit about HIM entering HIS own commercially produced "kits" due to transparency and ethics??

Ross, how much to post one of your FWK to SA?

cheers

the_new_darren

 

[bradsbrew]

What's the difference between Ross entering one of his kits and Joe bloggs entering one of Ross' kits? Unless thats where the proffessional advantage comes into play?

Cheers

 

[argon]

I did notice in a previous thread that Ross mentioned that he wanted "kits" out of Aussie HB competitions but was voted out 1 to 7 by the organising committee????? but he still went ahead and entered??? as himself???. (perhaps he missed the bit about HIM entering HIS own commercially produced "kits" due to transparency and ethics??

Ross, how much to post one of your FWK to SA?

cheers

the_new_darren

You just don't get it do ya? Pro-active protest you numbskull. I'm sure if ross were to sent you a fwk it would probably be pubed... So I wouldn't go about ordering one if I were you.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

What's the difference between Ross entering one of his kits and Joe bloggs entering one of Ross' kits? Unless thats where the proffessional advantage comes into play?

Cheers

Not if you're choosing to ferment at 19C.

All "professional" stuff is gone - a bit like not using your bright tank.

Goomba

 

[the_new_darren]

Brad,

Unless others can repeat Ross's success using his kits then it answers the OP question?


So please speak up anyone else that used one and won a prize!


Otherwise one might suspect that his bottles were filtered, carbonated and CPBF on a production line as well?

cheers

the_new_darren

 

[the_new_darren]

You just don't get it do ya? Pro-active protest you numbskull. I'm sure if ross were to sent you a fwk it would probably be pubed... So I wouldn't go about ordering one if I were you.

Nah, I dont much. Are you saying if I ordered a Ross FWK to SA via someone else it would be pubed?

I was just asking what it would cost for 20 litres of 1.045 wort from Ross's production facility to be sent to SA?

cheers

the_new_darren

 

[bradsbrew]

Not if you're choosing to ferment at 19C.

All "professional" stuff is gone - a bit like not using your bright tank.

Goomba

I don't understand your point? Nothing wrong with 19 deg ferment especially if it is in a commercial setting.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I don't understand your point? Nothing wrong with 19 deg ferment especially if it is in a commercial setting.

Point was that anyone of us - even without temp control, could have fermented at 19C (or below) in winter.

And he obviously chooses not to use other professional advantages.

Therefore he enters his beer (from FWK) fermented under the same condition as others who would be considered truly amateur.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Brad,

Unless others can repeat Ross's success using his kits then it answers the OP question?


So please speak up anyone else that used one and won a prize!


Otherwise one might suspect that his bottles were filtered, carbonated and CPBF on a production line as well?

cheers

the_new_darren
[/quote

I think that new_darren has a reasonably valid point.

2 fresh wort kits, lets assume they are identical are taken home by two different brewers and fermented in their home set-up. Both brewers get to take advantage of any "professional advantages" you might gain by using a FWK and both are exposed to any disadvantages of having to complete the brewing process at home.

Brewer A wins makes an award winning beer and gets a medal .. Brewer B makes an average beer and comes midfield.

To me, that really irons out the "FWK should not be allowed in comps" argument, because plainly there is enough application of skill left to do at home that it makes a difference between winning and losing beer. The "professional" nature of the wort wasn't the deciding factor. Whereas if everyone who used one of the kits that managed to do well when Brewer A made it - also did well, then its the wort itself that's winning the prize.

It does little to address the pro v amateur argument though, because if one of the brewers happens to be Ross... then there is some argument to say that h is a better brewer because he is a "pro" - sure he fermented at home on his amateur equipment, but he has all that experience. The counter argument to that is of course that Ross was winning comps long before he went pro.

It would be interesting to hear from other brewers who have entered FWK beers in comp, especially if they used the kits that we now know are more than capable of winning a trophy if handled correctly once you get the kit home.

 

[Nick JD]

Ross told me a few months back in a thread that he himself doesn't actually doing the "brewing", one of his team in his brewery does - which kind of agrees with what I see when I'm in there.

Surely this is another big key point?

Can I employ someone to make beers and them enter them? If I can, then I'd like to employ the brewers at Weihenstephan.

With all due respect (please don't spit in my grain :wub if you make a living employing people to brew beer, you're a professional brewer no matter how slap-happy (fermenting lagers in rubbish bins at 19C) you choose to be.

 

[Silo Ted]

You just don't get it do ya? Pro-active protest you numbskull. I'm sure if ross were to sent you a fwk it would probably be pubed... So I wouldn't go about ordering one if I were you.

Pro-active (not so) viral marketing more like it. It's all very clever, if you examine it from another angle.

 

[mje1980]

Jesus guys, is a sash really worth all this??

 

[Silo Ted]

Jesus guys, is a sash really worth all this??

Maybe. <_<