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TidalPete said:
Brad,

This is absolutely my last post here but can't help but wonder that IF you have trade qualifications as you must have to do what you do in your job then WITBH would you forget your roots & pander to the employer side of things?
It's all a big mystery to me.
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I have a trade Pete, and the only time I had dealings with a union cost me and my brothers our jobs and shut down the small factory I worked in, six weeks of strikes killed it for the owners and they opted to shut down,not saying unions haven't done good but I haven't directly experienced the awesome benefits of paying for them to look after the "battler".
 
jlm said:
I I tell all the young kids who come to work with me that if you want to earn more money.......make your boss more money......a lot don't understand. Which is funny, as for the most part they're (unknowingly) far more ardent capitalists than I'll ever be.
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Now I think of it.....I also tell most people who work for me, regardless of age and generational compartment, to never show leadership or ability 'cause you'll end up in my place, trying to get a good job out of c*&ts like yourself. I don't think that fits into the conversation anywhere (I have quoted myself after all) but I feel like I need to get more of my managerial skills out there.
 
Unions still have a place.

Its interesting that a "union" of doctors and lawyers call themselves a differenent entity..
 
StalkingWilbur said:
Hahahah. Baby boomers blaming gen y for the woes of the world. Classic.
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+1

"I'll have a starter of cheap housing, a main of negative gearing and the huge equity gain in my first house and to finish I'd like to blame the future generations for wanting too much, oh and I'll have the cheese and a glass of generally stuffing up the planet and taking the best years of western manufacturing and growth.".

Well we've gone so far from the original post office debate that I thought this would be ok too :D
 
OK, so both you mods people replying to this thread are saying that even though you have a trade & have done your apprenticeship as you say thus relying on the hard-fought efforts of others to get you where you are today you STILL deny the obvious facts which are that the hard-fought sacrifices of those who paved the way are forgettable?

Looking forward to you both & others to give documental proof that your employers, have credited you with your "Hand-on-the-heart" ;) promise that you will NEVER, EVER accept accumulated sick leave, any overtime payments whatsoever, no time off for public holidays, the list goes on & on & on ----
Australian voters will thank you for your choice. :p

Truly, truly my last post on this thread & you can blame those Perlick 575's for this last foray into this thread. :D
 
TidalPete said:
OK, so both you mods people replying to this thread are saying that even though you have a trade & have done your apprenticeship as you say thus relying on the hard-fought efforts of others to get you where you are today you STILL deny the obvious facts which are that the hard-fought sacrifices of those who paved the way are forgettable?

Looking forward to you both & others to give documental proof that your employers, have credited you with your "Hand-on-the-heart" ;) promise that you will NEVER, EVER accept accumulated sick leave, any overtime payments whatsoever, no time off for public holidays, the list goes on & on & on ----
Australian voters will thank you for your choice. :p

Truly, truly my last post on this thread & you can blame those Perlick 575's for this last foray into this thread. :D
Click to expand...
Pete, many people fought hard to make this country what it is. If I had to pay every group that has fought for my rights a membership just to get on a job site I would be better off on the dole. Did you work for a private employer or a public sector employer that had compulsory union obligations?
 
Perhaps you might have been better off in the long run just by-passing the apprenticeship guidelines & asking for a straight-up membership to those LNP bastards mate. :lol:

Just joking Brad. :D

:icon_offtopic:

It looks like my application for a $10.00 discount via you on behalf of all AHB'ers who are in retirement years has been ignored by our new Yankee owners so I will go Pro whenever I decide to or not.
Probably Never! -_-
 
Forgot to mention its freely downloadable at thepiratebay.com in .pdf

oh the ******* ironie..you know...the iron with with the dupont patenetnedededed.non schtick surface.
 
The funny thing is that very few people realise that unions are actually an integral part of the capitalist system.
The issue is how to split up the proceeds of business or commerce between the investors/owners of the business and those who actually do the work. It's just a question of who gets how much.

You don't really see any effective union presence in a dictator/socialist/communist environment. They might be there in name only to placate the masses, but of no real effect.

I don't have a beef with unions, they are an essential part of our system, and we need them to maintain balance. I'd hate to see where we'd end up without them. However, there are or have been abuses on both sides of the fence, whether workforce or management. That's also why we have labour and workplace legislation in place to set some of the ground rules. And I agree with Ducatiboy stu, there are lots of unions masquerading under other names such as the Australian Medical Association (medicos' union), Law Society (solicitors union), Bar Association (barristers' union) etc.

I'm now retired, and I was a union member for only part of my working life, but I was able to sell myself on my particular work skills and application. That did take a lot of hard work with tertiary studies and continued performance at my job. I'd have been moved out if I wasn't performing up to or better than expected standard.
 
I agree that we should have unions to represent workers. I dont agree that unions can stop a person for trying to earn some money, just because they do not want to pay to join.
 
I do agree with you Brad, no one should be able to stop you earning a crust, but what does sort of annoy me is when people say "I don't think a union can stop me going on site" yet they would expect all the same allowances, pay rate and safety standards that the union successfully negotiated for it's members who are also working on that site. If it is a "union site" every one there has benefited from the hard work of generations of union members, I'd think that it is sort of fair to expect a contribution from everyone who is enjoying those benefits.
 
I think the union in the traditional sense has really seen its day. They may have once been really effective but so many minimal standards have now been legislated that the unions role now seems to be solely about getting pay/conditions above the award. If that's going to be your sole goal then why not allow people to negotiate their own conditions, or join a union if they don't want to/don't feel confident doing that.

My workplace only has about 30% union membership yet every couple of years the agreement is looked at it seems only the union is consulted. And for my part, a number of the "conditions" they've fought for are there to appeal to poor performing staff. I use little to none of the benefits they've worked so hard to get. I'd Trade a huge chunk of them for something meaningful. Like performance based pay.
 
Funny thing is that the life cycle of capital investment has come down, meaning capital needs renewing more often than it used to because mainly of the cheaper machinery (read production tools) and cheaper finance (lower rates everywhere). That does mean the employer needs a larger chunk of the margin (which shrinks more than it grows) to keep renewing the production capital. Yet staunch union backers would try to keep the share of the worker where it used to. What is driving the gen y away from the union movement is the irresponsible economics they preach. The union hurts the future of employees today by negotiating over payment for those employed now at the cost of very little being able to be invested back into growth. The unions need to make themselves relevant again if they want the workers to embrace them. I'm probably gen y, have worked in at least 6 or 7 different industries from being a worker through to being a manager, from being a number through to being the essential tool for the employer. It is true, some of the big employers do not give a **** about their employees. Their managements seem to treat employees with absolute contempt. Also, those same places have entrenched union bargained EBAs. Also, they have no performance based pay. In fact, it is ridiculously hard to reward hard workers over slackers unless you keep them casual and drop/increase the availability of work selectively. That is self destructive. IMO. Incidentally some of these are owned by big big big old money.

The better places I've worked for have tended to not be unionised/employee association beyond the organisation itself and understand the business a lot more. If the employees want a bigger cut of the take they gotta also invest in their work, one way or another. Seriously, if the cost of doing business in Australia doesn't get reasonable we would be in bad times with the flight of capital from our shores.
 
Did I not read this morning in the Australian that the A.W.U. is to forgo any of the wage increases with Rio Tinto after a ballot of the employees, what this is is common sense and how businesses and unions can work together and keep jobs.
 
Ok, just trying to catch up with all this. :unsure:

So, next time I see my postie I push him off his bike a scream at him hes a whiny, lazy, capitalist gen-y scumbag and his union is ruining the country because it protects slakers and is irrelevant and corrupt?

Or do I just get my mail and open it? :ph34r:
 

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