Polyclar V Whirfloc

[dpadden]

Brewed an APA this weekend, and everything went to plan...really happy. Then realised I forgot the bloody Whirfloc which was obvious from the very cloudy wort into the fermenter.

I have never used Polyclar before, but will this do a similar job of clearing things up when added at the end of ferment? I plan on crashing to almost 0 deg then adding polyclar as per instructions.

Thanks guys.

 

[troopa]

I think youll find that Polyclar is used for chill-haze
Youd be looking at a finning agent like either gelatin or isinglass

Tom

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Brewed an APA this weekend, and everything went to plan...really happy. Then realised I forgot the bloody Whirfloc which was obvious from the very cloudy wort into the fermenter.

I have never used Polyclar before, but will this do a similar job of clearing things up when added at the end of ferment? I plan on crashing to almost 0 deg then adding polyclar as per instructions.

Thanks guys.

Polyclar and whirlfloc do different things - so polyclar will not fix any problems caused by leaving out the whirlfloc.

Fortunately there wont really be many problems caused by leaving out the whirlfloc in the first place. The vast majority of what whirfloc does, is make the little bits of hot break floc together into big bits of break, which sink faster, meaning you can rack clear wort to the fermenter with a shorter period of time for settling out the break.

Your cloudy wort was cloudy (probably) simply because it was full of teeny tiny unflocculated particles of hotbreak - these may or may not affect the flavour of your beer by being in the fermenter, but should have minimal to no impact on the clarity of your beer. They will sink to the bottom along with your yeast.

Polyclar removes polyphenols that would perhaps complex with proteins to cause chill haze (an extension of cold break really) - No reason to not put it in your beer, it will ensure it doesn't suffer from chill haze, but it isn't doing the job of whirlfloc.

As far as I am concerned, whirlfloc doesn't really contribute to beer clarity.... it contributes to cast wort clarity, and thats not the same thing.

TB

 

[dpadden]

I think youll find that Polyclar is used for chill-haze
Youd be looking at a finning agent like either gelatin or isinglass

Tom

Not really Whirfloc is a protein coagulant and Polyclar is also used for a similar purpose but my understanding is that its a polyphenal binder.....

gelatin and isinglass are yeast flocculants

 

[Effect]

pretty sure gelatin and isinglass are used to floc out yeast, polyclar for chill haze and whirlfloc for protein?

edit: too slow

 

[dpadden]

got in before me thirsty boy thanks for your answer, certainly cleared it up for me

 

[dpadden]

so to speak :lol:

 

[buttersd70]

Polyclar and whirlfloc do different things - so polyclar will not fix any problems caused by leaving out the whirlfloc.

Fortunately there wont really be many problems caused by leaving out the whirlfloc in the first place. The vast majority of what whirfloc does, is make the little bits of hot break floc together into big bits of break, which sink faster, meaning you can rack clear wort to the fermenter with a shorter period of time for settling out the break.

Your cloudy wort was cloudy (probably) simply because it was full of teeny tiny unflocculated particles of hotbreak - these may or may not affect the flavour of your beer by being in the fermenter, but should have minimal to no impact on the clarity of your beer. They will sink to the bottom along with your yeast.

Polyclar removes polyphenols that would perhaps complex with proteins to cause chill haze (an extension of cold break really) - No reason to not put it in your beer, it will ensure it doesn't suffer from chill haze, but it isn't doing the job of whirlfloc.

As far as I am concerned, whirlfloc doesn't really contribute to beer clarity.... it contributes to cast wort clarity, and thats not the same thing.

TB

I'd have to agree...personally, I don't use whirfloc. To be honest, I don't really worry too much about getting break in, either. I should, perhaps, be more careful with it; but I'm not. I've never had any issues with clarity (or any flavour impact picked up by myself or others), and get excellent clarity. (I use geletain and polyclar).

 

[troopa]

Well there you go
I was close but not quite.. i knew they were Floc agents but didn't realise that they reacted differently to different particles in different ways

Tom

 

[Bribie G]

Just as a wee anecdote I used Isinglass for the first time and as well as producing a clear beer when it was kegged, at 6 degrees it's crystal clear on the third and fourth glasses out of the keg, and no chill haze, which has always plagued me. On this occasion I didn't add Polyclar and it looks like the isinglass helped here as well.
Nothing to do with the Whirlfloc of course.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I keep's tellin ya Issinglass will drop Chill haze as well if use like I keep sayin.HERE
GB

 

[t2000kw]

I've used Whirlfloc and also forgot to use it at times and see no difference in the final beer. I pour my whole brew kettle contents (after cooling with an immersion chiller) into my fermenter, and I often don't get around to racking for a couple of weeks to a month. I then leave it set in a glass carboy for a few weeks to as much as a year and have no problems whatsoever with clearing, off-flavors, etc.

So it appears to me that I don't really need to use Whirfloc after all. If it makes any difference in the final clarity of the beer, I don't notice it, but it might make it clear faster, which I wouldn't notice in my home brewery.

 

[Brewman_]

I keep's tellin ya Issinglass will drop Chill haze as well if use like I keep sayin.HERE
GB

HI GB,

I have to agree 100%. I have used Isinglass, (Powder), combined with chilled beer for 2 years and get no haze including chill haze - works great.

But just a question, on prep. I prepare in hot - 60 Deg.C water. Never had a problem. The only time I tried with cold water I ended up with white jelly? Am I doing it wrong or causing other problems?

Fear_n_Loath

 

[matti]

FnL

You will denature the product at 60 degrees C.
Are you sure you are not talking about gelatine?

Gelatine as opposed to isinglass need to be heated up to dissolve then added to brew.
Isinglass is messier but more effective as it need to be dissolve in cool fluid as the instruction according to GBs link.

MAtti

 

[Brewman_]

Hi Matti,
I am definitely talking about Isinglass powder. I tried dissolving it in cold water and it just seemed to clump up? It is certainly working when I dissolve it in hot water though??

I'll check out GB's link to make sure I am doing it right.

Fear_n_Loath

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Hi Matti,
I am definitely talking about Isinglass powder. I tried dissolving it in cold water and it just seemed to clump up? It is certainly working when I dissolve it in hot water though??

I'll check out GB's link to make sure I am doing it right.

Fear_n_Loath

Yes It will clump a bit that's why its recommended to use a high shear mixer.I cant say I have ever mixed it hot so I cant comment but the recommendations suggest under 16C or it will be denatured.
GB

 

[Bribie G]

You can get cheap milkshake mixers from GoLo, Reject shop etc for under 20 bucks. Do you think they would work? I reckon a three minute whizz might do the trick?

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

You can get cheap milkshake mixers from GoLo, Reject shop etc for under 20 bucks. Do you think they would work? I reckon a three minute whizz might do the trick?

Yeah I have a mixer just for the issinglass but usually I just use the stir plate as its much easier to sanitise and clean .Takes longer but I'm not in a hurry and the issinglass is micro-biologically stable for a few weeks after mixing.
GB

 

[Scruffy]

Hydrate the Isinglass, maybe in your food processor (like i do my Polyclar)
But no higher than 60F - that's about 15C
Denature means: to take natural qualities away from...

I'm using Agar Agar now - slightly different, but clears to the best of my ability (i'm sure it's fantastic - but I'm not yet...)

Edited cause I'm a bit of a mummy's boy...

 

[Brewman_]

Hi all,
Yes, I agree after checking the instruction on the Isinglass, it must be mixed cold.

Here's the thing though, I have been doing it hot many many times and it absolutely drops the yeast and any chill haze in 24Hrs - chill haze only if the beer is cold, say 0 to 1 Deg.C.

I'll give it a go cold from now on.

Thanks, Fear_n_Loath