Plastic Electric Boilers

[bonk]

my old chlorine bucket of doom has been going great guns.

one thing i discovered is an easy way to clean the elements. there is an electric jug cleaning packet i got from woolies. that cleans the elements up nice and shiney again. just need an old scrubber and the junk comes off nice and easy.

 

[Joel]

Just got myself one of those 60L fermenters to use for my boiler. The 30L would probably have had boil-overs. Now I'll be able to have nice long hard boils

 

[Darren]

Hey,
Just a quick observation,
These plastic containers are not designed to have HOT (100deg C) liquids boiled for an hour in them. They are designed to have ambient temp water stored for short times.
Anyone have data on plastic leaching at high temps with this type of container?
Not to mention the fact that boiling wort on the skin is an obvious danger
UV light and heat is bound to weaken these types of containers.
I ask the question, is $100 for a metal boiler worth the pain and suffering of a third degree burn worth it?
cheers
Darren

 

[shmick]

Hey,
Just a quick observation,
These plastic containers are not designed to have HOT (100deg C) liquids boiled for an hour in them. They are designed to have ambient temp water stored for short times.
Anyone have data on plastic leaching at high temps with this type of container?
Not to mention the fact that boiling wort on the skin is an obvious danger
UV light and heat is bound to weaken these types of containers.
I ask the question, is $100 for a metal boiler worth the pain and suffering of a third degree burn worth it?
cheers
Darren

[post="63750"][/post]​

Continous boiling would be pushing the limits

Most of these type buckets are HDPE (high density polyethylene - recycle No2) which usually have a continuous heat rating of 90degC.
Ok for HLT/mash tun but may be subject to deformation above this. ie taps popping out of threads etc.

A much better choice would polypropylene (recycle No5 ) used for electric kettles etc but does anybody make buckets from this stuff? Heat ratings from 125 to 250degC

One advantage of plastic would be that the outside of the bucket is electrically isolated from the electrical element within. Just dont touch any metal plumbing in contact with the fluid.

 

[Plastic Man]

The "Handy Pails" that Bunnings sell are polypropylene, though 25l is the biggest one and the walls are fairly thin.

The HBD has a lot of debate on this issue and I seem to remember that someone actually posted a good table showing the temp ratings of the different plastics. From memory polypropylene was rated at a higher temp but got more soft than HDPE at a given temp - thus may have more risk of popping taps at 100C.

At the end of the day there are a lot of plastic breweries out there that have been in use for many years. I think HDPE is OK but try and get the walls as thick as possible. Do a google on electric plastic brewerys and a lot come up. Also check some of the classic notes on the subject in HBD buy the like of Ken Swartz (probably got spelling wrong).

Also - one way of minimising the risk of popping taps maybe to use a plastic skin fitting that the boat chandlers sell. It has a pretty hefty piece of plastic on both sides of the wall. Comes with a hose barb on one end. I bought one for $4.95 from Whitworths and chopped the threaded part in half with a hack saw and put a ball valve between the skin fitting and the plastic hose barb. I've only used it on the HLT but it seems to work OK. Worth a look.

 

[Joel]

The plasticiser used in most food safe plastic products is generally citric acid. The same stuff that is used in glad wrap, and as a food additive in a huge amount of foods. I'm sure there are more (and more harmful) additives in commercial beer, just look up Food Standards Australia allowances on amounts and types of additives commericial breweries can use. Scary stuff. No wonder my hangovers start on my second beer and continue for another 2 days!

As for my boiler, I'll be drilling a new hole and fitting my own metal ball valve. A plastic one is too risky.

The plastic route is a good cheap route into AG brewing. I may upgrade one day... we'll see. h34r:

 

[MVZOOM]

Wow - any other plastic boiler devotee's? I have a number of 30l cubes which I'm happy to play around with for this purpose.

For the life of me I'm having trouble getting hold of a cheap (TA) solution for a boiler.

Any thoughts?

Cheers - Mike

 

[colinw]

I run both an electric boiler and a gas powered boiler, but have been tending to use the electric more lately as it is just so convenient.

Both my mash tun and electric boiler are old plastic bucket fermenters similar to this:

The mash tun is insulated with a camping mat and duct tape, with a copper manifold and a hunk of styrofoam which pushes down inside.

The boiler was a "fermtech" brand 30 litre HDPE bucket, with a 2000 watt element fitted in a hole drilled out with an appropriate size hole saw. Its primary use was heating strike & sparge water, but about the middle of last year I got sick of having to buy gas refills and thought "what the hell" and started using it for boiling as well. The quality of my beer did not change, and I can't detect any plasticy smells or flavours in the beer or in my strike or sparge water.

cheers,
Colin

 

[altstart]

:blink:
When I started AG for the sake of economy I used a new 60ltr fermenter as a boiler. It worked fine for mash strike temps but when heated to sparge temps ie 98C it developed a serious lean to one side. At that point I decided I would wait untill I had a S/S boiler and stay out of hospital. Believe me at 98C it is extremely dangerous to use plastic especially if you have a three tier brew stand. Stay safe.

Cheers Altstart

 

[colinw]

Hmmm... the 30 litre buckets like that one I posted above are rock solid at boil temperature. No deformation at all.

 

[MVZOOM]

I'lldo some research to check recommended melting / boiling points then. It's gotta be an easy way to go!

Cheers - Mike

 

[Joel]

I've used my 60L fermenter/electric kettle now for about 5 brews and it's going great. I've got 2400W and 2200W electric kettle elements mounted in either side and a 1/2" brass ball valve tap. It's wrapped in some of that camping mattress material to help keep the heat in. Once up to boiling point, the plastic is a little bit softer. I'll have to post some pictures tomorrow before work.

I am slowly gathering the gear for a gas fired kettle. But the trusty plastic electric kettle will always have a special place in my heart! And make a handy backup kettle.

 

[lucas]

wow, the idea of boiling in plastic had never even occurred to me. I have one of the newer coopers fermenters and it gets fairly soft just filling it with hot water from the tap, perhaps they're using different or thinner plastics these days.

 

[Joel]

The walls of my 60L fermenter/kettle are fairly thick (for a plastic vessel). Got it, and some 30L fermenters, from a mob called Silverlock Packaging in Adelaide. Cheaper than most HBS's too.

 

[poppa joe]

Google or Yahoo...."cd's old electric wort boiler'
Heaps of info on what he has done.With a plastic boiler..
I have made one but dont need it just yet.(Out of a .90 hdpe 46 lt..chlorine container )
cheers
PJ

 

[dairymaid]

Hi guys,
these barrels sound a lot of fun -
What temperature do you control them at?
and can you control the temperature?

I have a reflux still, with two elements in,( they are electric jug type elements)
but the temperature when distilling can go up to 90C.

I am just considering it as a viable option, at this stage I've not made any grain beers!!

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Some project pics in the gallery "Bucket o' Death" ...handy pail HLT.

20L to 80-85c in 25mins ...easy to do as well B)

 

[len]

Heaps of info on what he has done.With a plastic boiler..
I have made one but dont need it just yet.(Out of a .90 hdpe 46 lt..chlorine container )

Hey, that's interesting - I've been looking at using one of those containers as a fermenter. I've got two proper ones, but I want a third to do secondary in so I can do secondary and bulk priming on two batches at a time - at the moment I can only do one batch properly (eg lager) and the other goes straight from primary into individually primed bottes (eg ale).

Do you know if it's sanitary? I wouldn't have thought you'd get much in the way of infection , but I'm concerned about chlorine residue or the plastic altering the taste of the wort.

Len
(partial mash lager in primary, planning a kolsch)

 

[len]

Do you know if it's sanitary? I wouldn't have thought you'd get much in the way of infection , but I'm concerned about chlorine residue or the plastic altering the taste of the wort.

I decided to go ahead with this, after having a talk to Dave in North Sydney and finding this page saying that most HDPE (recycling #2) is food-safe for alcohols, fats, acids, etc. The potential problems remaining are impurities in the plastic because it's not food-grade, and chlorine residue leaching into my beer. I can't do much about the first, but a soak in hot water should vaporise any residue. And they're great containers - it'd be a shame to see it go to waste.

 

[kenworthy]

Heaps of info on what he has done.With a plastic boiler..
I have made one but dont need it just yet.(Out of a .90 hdpe 46 lt..chlorine container )

Hey, that's interesting - I've been looking at using one of those containers as a fermenter. I've got two proper ones, but I want a third to do secondary in so I can do secondary and bulk priming on two batches at a time - at the moment I can only do one batch properly (eg lager) and the other goes straight from primary into individually primed bottes (eg ale).

Do you know if it's sanitary? I wouldn't have thought you'd get much in the way of infection , but I'm concerned about chlorine residue or the plastic altering the taste of the wort.

Len
(partial mash lager in primary, planning a kolsch)

Im using a couple of those containers as fermenters had no problem with the chlorine its highly soluble and rinsed out okay make intersting fermenters with that cap on lid as well as the screw top regards