BIAB greatly reduced trub

[Barge]

Whilst I'm not overly concerned of the impact trub makes on my beer, I would like to reduce trub to increase the amount of wort that makes it into the keg.

Leaving trub in the kettle or the fermenter is moot when the ultimate issue is that, either way, I'm brewing 3L for nothing.

I've just finished making a 1V recirculating system (like every other *******) and I'm expecting to use less grain to fill a keg as I'm not leaving 3L behind.

 

[wobbly]

Interestingly I tried this "slow hoisting" of the malt pipe on my 20lt Braumeister at the end of a "flooded, minimal sparge (4 lt)" yesterday and I noticed that the trub/break material left behind was reduced by about 50%.

I normally leave about 3.5 to 4lt of break material in the bottom of the BM after allowing it to settle for about 45 mins at the end of the boil and after cooling and stop the running's as soon as I start to draw any break material. I normally gently tip the BM towards the end of the running's and get about 25lt's into the fermenter from a post boil vol of 29lts

With yesterdays brew following with a grain bill of 4.75kg of grain I was able to drain off more of the clear wort and only left behind 1.5 lt's of break material and got 28lts into the fermenter from a post boil vol of just under 30lts

I should also mention that this brew was also the first "Flooded Malt Pipe/Full Volume Mash" I have attempted with the BM so not sure what if any part that played in the amount of reduced break material.

Whilst "one swallow doesn't make a summer" I guess I saw sufficient break material reduction to try this method a few more times.

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Dozer71]

Just tried this method on a Schwarzbier with 5.85 kg grain bill in my Crown Urn aiming for 25L into the FV. 60 min mash at 65 which went a little bit longer (whilst lifting the bag) as wanted to check the SG before starting the boil. Hit my SGs and could tip the urn without the crap flowing in to overflow my 25L cube (which as we know does hold more than 25L). Efficiency at 73% which is consistent with my other brews.Time to adjust my losses in my spreadsheet.

Best advantage is less crap baked on the circle over the concealed element which makes easier cleaning. :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

As they say, the proof of the pudding....

My Yorkie is due to be kegged off in about 3 days so let's see...

 

[Reman]

So you would say it's the slow bag rise?

 

[Mr B]

Bribie, thanks for the prompt to think about this stuff.

I usually get an absolute crapload of trub when I brew, standard BIAB. Dont think it affects the beers, and I dont worry too much about it, but its a bit annoying.

Did a brew today. Simple Pilsner/wheat grist.

Heated full vomume strike normally, mashed for 90 mins.

When heating to mashout, I usually lift the bag a little on a pulley to stop it getting burnt as I use a NASA and no false bottom etc.

I usually stir the shit out of it when its close to 78 deg, to equalize the temp. Whe I do this it will drop the overall temp by about 1.5 degrees or so.

There is usually a fair bit of visible (as it turns out) flour floating around.

Today, I stirred the grain once. Then, had the bright idea of jugging wort back through the bag.

I initially did it through the ball valve, but it was a but tedious.

I also considered that the flour would be riding the convection currents at the top of the wort, so I probably wasnt filtering it at all.

Started dipping the jug, and did this for 10 mins or so till it was at temp.

This stabilized the temp in the grain (still in the bag, and lifted about 20mm or so from the base of the pot) so I didnt get the drop and have to raise and heat again.

It also removed a large amount of the flour.

After whirlpool, I had stuff all crap left, just hops and protein.

I usually put the last bit of trub/wort etc into a 5L container, filter through voile, and dilute and use for starters. Instead of a heap of shit in this, just a little, filtered out, and much better overall retention.

So

Think I'll buy a pump. Heading towards a 3v, but really this is just a bastardization of a 1v, and it works so much better than straight BIAB.

Cheers

 

[stm]

Mr B, sounds like a lot of stuffing around compared to Bribie's new method (ie, just pull the bag at end of mash), for the same result. Will definitely try the new Bribie method for my next batch. Looking forward to your taste test, Bribie.

 

[Bribie G]

I kegged off #1 a couple of days ago and bottled a couple to send to someone. The beer has just about dropped in the bottles and is clear, so no starch haze by the looks of it. Samples out of primary tasted perfectly ok, the couple of pints I had anyway

Thinking about it, that's actually a good result because I brewed the normal length that included a couple of litres of crap, so I've ended up with extra drinkable beer. I'll be reducing the length for the next brew.

 

[nosco]

House to my self for 2 days so brewin as much as i can.
To clarify the method is, stir as normal for steps or temp adjust, raise the bag slowly, no mash out. Maybe do a basic recirc with a jug when the bag is raised?

 

[Bribie G]

Yes, allow mash to settle to form a grain bed in the bag. Then raise very slowly. That's why a skyhook with pulley is good, you can just raise a few cm then come back a few minutes later.

Obviously you are never going to get as good a grain bed as HERMS or similar systems, but it's more than good enough IMHO after a couple of tries.

The other thing is to minimise hop matter as well. Considering that most hops used in Australia are pellets, they can create an alarming amount of shyte in the kettle, but I've found that by using a Craft Brewer grain bag as a swimming pool for the hops, pegged around the top of the kettle, the bag retains most of the hop solids that can be hoisted out, and the bittering and aroma are not affected.

 

[louistoo]

I tried the grain bag swimming pool with all my late hops last brew and was happy to get another litre into fermenter. Working up to the no mashout/ slow hoist.

Was gonna say slow pull but thought better.. whoops haha

 

[Bribie G]

Bump.

The "gentle lift" method has been touched on in the new BIAB in Electric Urn guide as well, so just posting latest results.

Here's the total trub from the bottom of the urn after a 1050 AIPA brew with quite a lot of hops in the "swimming pool" last night.

This is a 2L Aldi juice bottle, I'm going to freeze the bottle and use the clear bit for starters.

Not bad considering I used to tip out around 3 litres of runny mud, most brews.

 

[AJS2154]

Hi Bribie,

Well done, mate. I have really enjoyed this series of posts. Your struggle with trub sounds exactly the same as mine......I have maybe 4 litres of trub in the bottom of my keggle, and then about 1 litre wastage (give or take a little) in the plate chiller. Total loss is around 5 litres or around 17%.

I try not to get too fussy about trub getting into my FV (I cold crash before bottling), but if I can reduce it, and therfore increase brewing volumes into my FV, why not. I will try it on my next brew and report back.

Just one question about your Aldi 2 litre bottle above. Do you intend to decant the top say 80% of the liquid out of the bottle and then freeze? I wasn't quite sure exactly how you intend to achieve that bit. If you freeze it as is, the trub will be mixed in again as it thaws out.

Thanks again, cheers. Anthony

 

[Bribie G]

I just put it in the freezer. I expect when it thaws it will re-settle and I'll pour the top layer off to use.

 

[spog]

I just put it in the freezer. I expect when it thaws it will re-settle and I'll pour the top layer off to use.

as it thaws and settles it will warm to room temp ready for a starter,guess what I'm doing with the trub from now on .

 

[nosco]

Tried the slow hoist and no mash out on my last 2 brews. I also did a bit of a vorlauf with a 2 litre jug just for the hell of it. The first was a bittsa APA. I did the slow hoist and I also let it chill in the kettle over night. Not sure what did it but it was a very clear beer even with 200g of hops (using a hop bag in the boil).

The 2nd brew was a double batch, no chill pils I did in a hurry. I crushed the grain in a hurry and didn't adjust my mill. I ended up with a lot of powder so was expecting alot of trub. The first thing I noticed with both brews was that when I hoisted the bag so that the top of the grain in the bag was level with the top of the wort, haze started to leach out of the sides of the bag at the top straight away. I let it sit there for a while and then hoisted it up really slowly until the bag was about 10mm above the wort. Coz my pot is only 65lt i had to heat up 18lt in another pot so I did a half assed sparge with it. My bag has 4 handles so I left one off the hoist hook and poured it in the side. I let it drain for about 10 minutes after that and then slowly hoisted it to about 50mm above the wort. I let it drain for a lot longer than normal (?) while I drank some beer. It could have drained forever so I took the bag out. I got really lazy and didn't use a hop bag in the boil which I haven't done for a while. Even with the double batch it wasn't that much. I nearly filled both cubes with very little trub and very clear wort.

I always use BrewBright but I think it is the clearest wort I have ever had straight out of the kettle. I think I have improved my brewing process lately but even so I think the slow lift is a great technique. Maybe a usual brew day for some but a huge improvement for me and I got 1.058 from an expected 1.050. Ill dilute with some boiled water. The pic is what I took straight of the top before I "whirlpooled" and let it settle for a reading.


edit:mill powder

 

[Bribie G]

Bump.
Well done Nosco

Here's today's total trub from an English IPA



I had seriously been thinking of getting a Grainfather to get clearer wort but well chuffed with my experiments.

At the risk of thrashing the subject to death I think the "BIAB excessive trub" thing comes from a long standing misconception that you can't get an effective grain bed from BIAB, so don't even think about that, just hoist away as quickly as possible because BIAB is so quick and easy and we'll show these 3v bastards.

Cue pirate music: Hoist away lads hoist away

 

[Mozz]

I have been inspired by these posts to reduce the trub in my BIAB. To date I've had litres of the stuff.
I'm recircing at mashout for 15 minutes and then slowly lifting the bag. The bag sits on a raised tray in the kettle so it's an easy process to start the gas and recirc to mashout.
The grain definitely forms an effective grain bed and filters the wort. You can watch the wort clear up.
I have also been throwing hop pellets straight into the boil but last run used a hop bag (which I positioned to catch extra hot break as a sort of filter). I had virtually no trub. My only limit to draining the kettle was the position of the drain. Very happy with the result.

 

[RdeVjun]

Excellent findings above, I'll relate that I too find a very similar experience since adopting a slow lift. The take home message is to take your time at the end of the mash, there's plenty of opportunity to get the bag drained and runnings into the boil, adding during it is fine.