Old Peculier

[RobinHood]

Old Peculier – is a fantastic old beer I came across at the Lion Inn (1553) at Blakey, while walking across the ol’ Dart.
This is a recipe that I have found:-

[SIZE=13pt]Amount Fermentable[/SIZE]​

1.362Kg Dark Dry Malt Extract​

540g Golden Light DME​

454g Candi Sugar, Dark​

454g 2-Row Caramel Malt 60L​

227g Lyle's Golden Syrup​

168g Chocolate Malt​

168g Black Malt​

113g Molasses​

113g Wheat, Torrified​

[SIZE=18pt]Hops[/SIZE]

Amount Hop Time​

37g Fuggle (US) 60 min​

34g Fuggle (US) 15 min​

[SIZE=18pt]Yeasts[/SIZE]

Name Lab/Product Attenuation​

Trappist Ale Yeast White Labs WLP500 78.00%​

[SIZE=18pt]Extras[/SIZE]

Amount Name Time​

57g Isinglass, liquid 1.0 days​

2.0 tsp Irish Moss 15.0 min​

My questions are how do I introduce the Dark Candi Sugar; do I just heat it up in water till it dissolves? It looks like lollies.
Second question – the recipe asks for Fuggle (US) hops; I realise that Fuggle hops are grown in the USA, but I thought our main source were from NZ or the UK – is there a notable difference?
Lastly – Isinglass, an old protein that was mainly used in wine making for clearing the wine; Isinglass is apparently the dried wind bladder of the sturgeon! I’m using Irish Moss – is the “Fish Bladder” necessary?
Thanks in advance for any (good) advice given.
Cheers,
Robin.

 

[kaiserben]

Isinglass is just finings (you could use gelatine, or simply not bother)

I reckon Fuggles (US) is probably just because whoever came up with this clone recipe is from the US and had access to the US variety.

 

[welly2]

Good old Old Peculiar. Used to love that stuff. Interesting that they've used Trappist Ale Yeast for it. Let us know how you get on with that one, I'd love to brew some up myself.

 

[siege]

Definitely give it a go. It's a lovely beer.

I used whatever fuggles the LHBS had in stock. Can't imagine it making any difference to my uncouth palate.

I reckon you can simplify that list of fermentables a touch though. What is the point of golden syrup and candi sugar if you're also using molasses? (and molasses is used in the original)
Also what's the point of messing around with slightly different colours of DME? Use whatever you have because it's going to end up black from the steeped roasted malts anyway.
Finally what's the point of torrified wheat if you're not mashing as so stuck sparges etc aren't an issue?
What's the point of clarity fining agents in a black beer?

I agree it's a good idea to use a few different steeping grains to try to get the complexity and balance of flavours. You might have to do some experimental batches to get it where you want it, also what volume are you making? Can't comment on grain quantity without knowing how much beer you are making.
In my recipe I used: simpsons dark crystal, simpsons roast barley and weyerman carafa I
Plus the malt and molasses of course. I did use an english yeast strain though, belgian seems an interesting choice let us know how it turns out

 

[Mardoo]

I know technobabble66 has had a few go's at Old Peculiar. You could PM him for his recipe.

 

[manticle]

I'd be very surprised if that yeast is appropriate. Was going to suggest technobabble as well.

 

[MartinOC]

:icon_offtopic: Blakey or Blakeney (on the North Norfolk coast)?

Chances-are you came-across the best-presented OP on the planet, so no surprises that you were impressed....

 

[Bribie G]

It would just be a Yorkshire Stone Square type yeast for sure. Try 1469

My first experience with Old Peculier was in a pub in Sunderland UK in about 1976 served from a wooden barrel on the bar. I seem to remember.
My second experience was on a hiking tour when I ended up at Hexham railway station, in a state of dehydration and exhaustion, back in the days when we didn't call them a "train" station.
I'd picked up a six from a pub and drank them on the station. Presumably I got on the train.

 

[MHB]

Another fan of the old winter warmer.
The yeast is very wrong, I have used Muntons Gold, S-04 and London Ale with great success. Also been very happy with Graham Wheelers recipe, I suspect the Golden Syrup, Belgian Candi and Molasses are something of an affection. The beer is really pretty straight forward with the Fuggle ringing out pretty clearly, I suspect from the fruitiness that there is a fair amount of Challenger in the early hops.

If you like the Old Peculier, I would try a better recipe than that American abortion.
Mark

 

[manticle]

I have the impression from somewhere that Theakston's contains a portion of treacle.

The sugar additions in the Original poster's recipe look very out of place but the yeast is the sorest thumb.

Actually just checked the website which suggests a very simple pale (probably maris) crystal (uk presumably) and roast barley with fuggles and some other bittering hops.
Presumably some good ageing to develop other characters.

 

[Fourstar]

taken from the Real Ale Almanac...

pale, crystal, cereal, sugar, fuggles and other Bittering hop dry hopped 29 IBU.

i'd suspect the sugars take up majority of the dark colour. e.g. treacle or burnt caramel. As for cereal its probably unmalted grain e.g. torrified wheat. Yeast id be looking at 1469 or something pushing esters (1968). Not Belgian.

maybe something like.

1.058 OG

70% Maris Otter
10% Torrified wheat
7% Dark Crystal
5% Light Crystal
8% Burnt caramel or treacle

Challenger 20IBU @ 60min
Fuggles 9IBU @ 15min
Fuggles Dry Hop 7 days, (1.5g to the L)

 

[MHB]

Went and had a bit of a dig through a couple of books, the best single reference I could find remains Wheelers, the following references Rodger Protz's Almanac version 1-5, I believe the Flaked Maize is now history, that the other bittering hop is Challenger, the beer is dry (cask) hopped with Fuggle.
Not a complicated beer but beautify brewed.
Mark

Yes agree on both the sugar and yeast, in-fact its a pretty tragic recipe
M

[SIZE=medium]Old Peculier [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]OG: 1058 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Malt bill: Pale malt, Crystal malt, Roast malt, Flaked maize, Sugar [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Hops: Fuggles, Others [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Dry hops: Yes [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]IBU/(EBC): 29 (95) [/SIZE]

 

[Blind Dog]

molasses has no place anywhere near an Old Peculier type recipe, even though I've read many a poster on US sites suggesting it as a substitute for black treacle. It isn't. Not That I'd use black reacle either. Belgian yeast is another miss for me.

Assuming you want a extract recipe, there are plenty of less dubious origin flirting around either here or on UK forums. I don't brew extract, but if I did I'd be looking at something like 90% to 93% LME (preferably an English pale lme), 5% of crystals to steep (probably a mix of medium and dark) and a small amount (say 2%) of black malt also steeped for colour. Depending on the % of LME, up to 3% would be golden syrip (Lyles) or a raw sugar to add some fermentable and flavour whilst drying the beer a little.

Bitter with challenger (or ekg at a pinch). Late hops & dry hop should really be Fuggles.

Yeast should be English, Wyeast 1469 would be the obvious choice, although I'd probably go Wyeast 1275 or WLP Bedford if it was in season.

 

[RobinHood]

[SIZE=14pt]Thanks for the useful info you all have provided.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]In my quest I have come across this site:-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.britishbrewer.com/2010/02/recipe-theakston-old-peculier-version-1/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Which I assume my original (US it seems) recipe was adapted/plagiarised from.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The yeast has been questioned by a few, so the above link is interesting reading – and apparently Dan Murphy sells OP; when you are looking for a clone recipe they try to sell you the original, but good to know when comparison testing the brew.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The Dark Candi Sugar is added at flame-out for the “[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Base Malt and Fermentables[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]” and they are the size of those Coopers Carbonation Drops – bit concerned they will dissolve.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]So, it seems I will be trying the above link unless I find one of the suggested links or recipes that better fit the bill. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Once it is bottled I have to leave it for 3 months – a bloke could go mad waiting for the finished product! But as Sigmund once said “I’d rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Cheers,[/SIZE]

 

[manticle]

Pale malt extract.
steep crystal.
steep roast barley.
boil with challenger and late fuggles.
use a good uk yeast like 1469.
dry hop with fuggles.
age 3+months.

Throw sugar and belgian yeast at your next tripel.

 

[RobinHood]

[SIZE=14pt]In response to comments:-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Welly2 – “Used to love that stuff” – What do you mean “Used to”?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]MartinOC – Blakey, on the Yorkshire Moors and in the middle of nowhere. The Lion Inn, GREAT old pub – but I’m over 6ft and the 5’ 6’ ceiling bearers can be a headache. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Brbie G – It’s a wonder you caught the train at all![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Cheers,[/SIZE]

 

[madpierre06]

Have never tried this beer but threads like these always peak my interest to try a new drop, on searching found this recipe which comes close to what Fourstar came up with. One for the 'to try later' file.....

All-grain recipe, 5 gallon batch size
OG 1.058-1.060, IBU ~30, SRM ~21 (deep dark ruby)

75% Optic Pale malt
10% Simpson Crystal 75L
5% Torrified Wheat
2% Black Patent
8% Sugar

Mash @ 150-154F

Fuggles 4%AA 2oz @ 60min
Fuggles 0.5oz @ 15min

Yeast: 1469 West Yorkshire @ 62-65F

 

[MHB]

If you visit Theakstons website they say they use 2 bittering hops, I think I would definitely be using some Challenger in there. Other than that and the fact that the recipe is in silly units it looks pretty good.
Oh and I wouldn't worry about trying to get Optic any of the good UK pale malts would work, tho I admit to liking Golden Promise, especially in darker UK Ales.
Mark

 

[Coalminer]

If you visit Theakstons website they say they use 2 bittering hops, I think I would definitely be using some Challenger in there. Other than that and the fact that the recipe is in silly units it looks pretty good.
Oh and I wouldn't worry about trying to get Optic any of the good UK pale malts would work, tho I admit to liking Golden Promise, especially in darker UK Ales.
Mark

Mark
Interested in your opinion of the 2 recipes in Brewbuilder
Which would you recommend?
Cheers
Paul

 

[technobabble66]

I'll try to get to a computer a bit later in the day to post a wall of text on this, but all my research on TOP (~35 recipes i found, plus discussions) points towards what manticle suggests in post #15 to be more accurate, and the recipes like the two the OP has posted are from people with wild imaginations on ingredients and less understanding of the flavour complexities just a few simple ingredients and the right yeast can achieve (given some of my past recipes for other beers, i think manticle might've just choked a little :lol: ).

It's basically MO + Crystal + Chocolate (malt!) + Fuggles + EKG + Northern Brewer + some UK yeast.
This is from Wheeler's latest recipe, i believe.