No-chill... just leave in the urn?

[bradsbrew]

If I was concerned about plastic, I would either chill or investigate no chilling into cornies which should handle the pressure as far as I know.

With cornies you need to be carefull of the poppets being sucked in whilst cooling. Best way to combat that is to make a loop using the gas and beer disconnects and short length of beer/gas line.

 

[slcmorro]

Never said it killed you, just fucks with the hormones and causes alzheimers by the time your 60 you've
forgot if you was born male or female.

Anecdotal evidence, surely?

 

[mosto]

So we're worried about plastic possibly leaching a toxin into a liquid that we're going to convert to a toxin (alcohol) :huh:

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Spot on mosto, we will have to endure the plastic related toxins for a toxin we enjoy.

 

[citizensnips]

So we're worried about plastic possibly leaching a toxin into a liquid that we're going to convert to a toxin (alcohol) :huh:

A desirable toxin we intentionally create versus an unwanted toxin we try to avoid

 

[slcmorro]

Anecdotal evidence, surely?

No answer. I'll presume that's a no.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

No answer. I'll presume that's a no.

Just Google it and check it out for your self heaps of evidence out there, its like anything made from petro chemicals non are actually a health benefit.`

 

[citizensnips]

Oright so after some more thinking I had an idea relating to the whole 'If you don't like chilling in plastic and don't have 200L for an immersion chiller issue'. Theoretically wouldn't a pressure cooker be a suitable vessel to both brew and no chill in. Something such as http://www.allamericancooker.com/allamerican930pressurecooker.htm could be used as a kettle then sealed after with the pressure release valve engaged to stop as Ross said the kettle buckling in on itself. If one were to find a 50L stainless pressure cooker, could that be the ultimate all in one vessel? not sure if it even exists but hey it's an idea.
Thoughts

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I personally don't think it necessary to have an air tight seal, after all a lot of people just put it in a fermenter and put a tea towel over it, if the fermenter is sanitised correctly I am sure that over night cooling prior to pitching would be fine, those who say that it can lead to infections getting into the beer, which it can, but has it come from air born infections or an unsanitary fermenter , that is the question.

 

[Bridges]

Surely there is a way to use some sort of reversed air lock on a sealed stainless vessel to let it suck in air as it cools to avoid buckling etc.

Edit...after further thought...Although I guess in sucking in air could still bring nasties with it, whereas in fermentation its pushing out, positive pressure...
Yeah stupid idea...

 

[MHB]

Stick an HEPA filter onto a gas disconnect, you just need a couple of centimetres of gas line - let the keg breath in through the sterile filter as it cools.

Fermenting on the trub is a really silly idea, I'm not worried about cold-break but hot break wont do anything good for your beer.
The yeast will (not might) metabolise some of it putting high molecular weight protein back into the brew - removing this shit is one of the top 4 reasons for boiling a wort in the first place.
Iso-Alpha will stick to the extra trub, so you are removing some (up to 30% is lost in a normal ferment) more of the bitterness that we boil a wort to get in there.
It can and usually will coat yeast and sloe the ferment.
It will contribute to staling, assuming you want to keep your beer until it is mature.

I could go on but there really are lots of good reasons to get off hot break and no reason other than laziness not to.
Mark

 

[manticle]

I personally don't think it necessary to have an air tight seal, after all a lot of people just put it in a fermenter and put a tea towel over it, if the fermenter is sanitised correctly I am sure that over night cooling prior to pitching would be fine, those who say that it can lead to infections getting into the beer, which it can, but has it come from air born infections or an unsanitary fermenter , that is the question.

Why couldn't it come from the air? Or the tea towel?

I've heard of people covering fermenting beer/wort with a tea towel (not something I'd like to do myself) but not wort left to cool before pitching.

Only no chill infections I've had have been from improperly sealed lid and subsequent sucking in of air.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Why couldn't it come from the air? Or the tea towel?
Or an unsanitary fermenter that is what I said,I never said it couldn't come from the air, no one can state where an infection has come from, the tea towel was born out of necessity for early home brewers, no heat exchangers, no plastic containers, no s/steel pots they had to make do with what was available.
If infections were rife I would assume any early home brewer would have thrown in the towel. (not the tea towel)

 

[wynnum1]

At what temperature is the wort not going to get infected because if not time short could allow to drop naturally to this safe temperature before transfer .

 

[Ross]

I personally don't think it necessary to have an air tight seal, after all a lot of people just put it in a fermenter and put a tea towel over it, if the fermenter is sanitised correctly I am sure that over night cooling prior to pitching would be fine, those who say that it can lead to infections getting into the beer, which it can, but has it come from air born infections or an unsanitary fermenter , that is the question.

Sorry, but this is not fine, it will certainly reduce the risk (assuming tea towel has been thoroughly sanitised), but it will not stop all airbourne contaminants & you risk losing your brew. The best way, & one of the simplest is using a sealed vessel (corny, S/S fermenting bucket or whatever) & use a sterile filter as MHB advised in post 51. The rest of his post is worth taking heed of as well, he knows what he's talking about.

Cheers Ross

 

[carniebrew]

Chilling is water intensive, sure...but 200l of water costs about 60c, so it's not really a cost issue. You might whine about the environment, but seriously, are those whining taking into account the 1,500 litres of water it takes to produce 1kg of rice, or the 700 odd litres it takes to produce 1kg of wheat?

I chill, and my household usage of water is still well under the arbitrary target of 155 litres per person per day in my household (as our govt was recently demanding us to aim for). And given how much they're charging me for that bloody useless desal plant in Wonthaggi, I refuse to feel guilt dammit.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I don't think anyone has mentioned fermenting on the trub, the question was asked about letting the wort cool overnight instead of putting the wort through a heat exchanger or a plastic no chill cube, I think if he had a keg or corny MHB'S advice would be the one to follow, I didn't know he had either of those.

 

[MHB]

In fact you are right, I read another thread "Fermenting in boiler" and didn't go back to the start of this one before posting, sorry for any confusion - my bad.
Still not best practice to let the wort cool on the trub - not as bad as some ideas but still not optimal.

I did exactly this when I first got into AG, just covered the kettle with a bed sheet (about 6 layers) dipped in SO2 to prevent bacteria getting in. There was a noticeable improvement in my beer when I started chilling, and later when it got invented no chilling, and back to chilling...
Mark

 

[Bridges]

Just had a quick search for a suitable HEPA inline filter found this would work perfectly as described by MHB in post #51 above. Pricey option I'll stick to no chill in a cube thanks.

 

[MHB]

I has in mind something like this

See your LHBS, or from the Keg King website
Mark