no chill into white plastic fermenter?

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128K? LUXURY! 16k on my BBC micro (think they were called Acorn here) and little reel to reel cassette audio tape thingy for the program and data.
Ahhh those were the days, kids these days have no idea how much they're missing out on.
First external drive was a 5 1/4" floppy, DOUBLE sided AND Double density, and 1.2 MEG!!! holy moly how would you ever fill that up, and only 900 POUNDS Sterling, and this was back in 83/84 ye gods I must have been mad, probably still am a bit.
 
16k?? LUXURY! 4k on my Sharp something. reel to reel? we only had 1 reel that you had to wind in and out with a pencil. the first stuff used to etch into a slice of cheese. nah, can't remember, but 1981, Sharp, ok, i'll go and research.
ok, pretty sure it was the MZ-80B, in 32kb or 64kb models. going on the price of their earlier model, it was probably a bit over AU$2000, or about 15-17 weeks salary on the basic wage. i was a cellarman, the pub bought it for stock control. we had a guy from sharp just about living at the bar for 2 months sorting out tech issues.
 
Last time we had this conversation I went and looked at all the old home brewing books I could find (some back to the 1950's) what I have posted is what is reported in those references. Most of these are English books.
If I recall correctly I posted copies of some of the information. You are invited (again) to provide any evidence to the contrary, other than your personal recollections.
I have never seen any evidence that you or anyone posted that proves or suggests that 3V systems pre date 1V. Or that BIAB as we know it was in response to systems like Braumeisters. Was there perhaps a sixties Braumeister that I’m not aware existed?
Like I said, you have an opinion, do some research to support and post the evidence. Its pretty hard to expect everyone to just agree with you.
Mark
It only you that is disagreeing with me Mark. It’s not just my opinion, I’m telling you that I personally saw and used 1V BIAB, are you suggesting that I am making this up? dkril has posted above that his Grandfather did it also. I have previously posted pictures of descriptions and illustrations from old HB books.

If you take look at this this thread a few others also say they were aware that 1V BIAB was used and described in old books etc. As I recall the Dave Line Book that Yob mentions in post #2 was posted elsewhere and it showed BIAB

Here is a book by C.J.J.Berry first published 1963 that shows him using a single vessel BIAB.

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My grandfather did what we would now call BIAB back in the day. A couple of sheets of cheesecloth stitched together by my grandmother (the top tied shut with garden twine), and using the Fowlers Vacola boiler as his single vessel. No sparge.
Was that in Australia? Do you recall around what year it was?
 
Was that in Australia? Do you recall around what year it was?
I don't personally recall, no. Bit before my time ;).

From the early 70s, maybe late 60s era. I have his old fermenter which was made in the early 70s (month/year of manufacture is moulded into the base); and he did a few batches before that in a bucket with a tea towel over the top. Copied gthe bucket and tea towel from on the old ginger beer plant they had (or had had).

Definitely in Australia. He was born in the 1920s, and didn't leave the country this century.
 
I went and looked at all the old home brewing books I could find (some back to the 1950's) what I have posted is what is reported in those references. Most of these are English books.
Forgot to ask, what UK home brewing books do you have from the 1950's? All the ones I have seen are 1963 or after. I know there was a lot of illegal home brewing prior to 63 but haven’t seen books published about it back then.
 
@MHB
Are your 50’s books aimed at home brewers or commercial setups? Just a thought Mark but maybe the 1950’s books you have did not cover single vessel brewing as you needed a licence to brew at home back then and I would guess anyone with a licence would be looking to brew more than the 5-10 gallons that it is practical to brew using a grain bag.

Any chance you can show us pictures of your books and the equipment they used?

Having a clear out at the weekend and came across my old BIAB Electrim bin and grain bags that I used for brewing single vessel all grain in the eighties.

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any issues going straight from kettle into white plastic fermenter?
i did this yesterday, wort had cooled to 75 for a hopstand, and fermenter was star sanded prior, but it still didnt feel right, felt like the ar... i mean bottom of the FV was going to drop.

i do use the cubes, but had a larger batch i wanted to drop straight into the FV, but due to my worry abuot the construction of the standard white FV, i put it in a big esky with ice around it to help cool, then chucked in the fridge for a few hrs prior to pitching,

i've been using a lot of kveik VOSS lately, so having the wort warm is good, as it loves the temps about 35+ so reduces the cooling time
 
Last time we had this conversation I went and looked at all the old home brewing books I could find (some back to the 1950's) what I have posted is what is reported in those references. Most of these are English books.
@MHB Mark we are just discussing BIAB in another thread and I was reminded of this discussion. Any chance you could post pics of your fifties HB books showing what brewing systems were used back then?

Are you sure they are home brew books or perhaps they are aimed at brewers that where licensed to brew and sell beer and would not use a small BIAB setup?

As you can see from the book I posted above BIAB definitely existed in the sixties so I think you will agree I didn’t have my brewing history mixed up after all?
 
I cant give you the answer you seem to want. From the pictures in the book you have yes it would appear that people were doing BIAB some time ago. There is a but or two so here goes.

I think that its fair and reasonable to say that Pat re/invented the concept of BIAB (and the name) independently.
By that I mean worked it out for himself (well a few of us here had our ore in the water but it was mainly Pat). Without reference to bruheat or any books that talked about the idea.
Sadly we cant ask Pat Hollingdale, I sincerely hope he gets the credit he deserves.

Now going back to the references, I have been through most of my library and cant find a single reference to BIAB that predates the modern iteration of BIAB. Most of my older books are early copies of technical books (more for novelty than use). The oldest non technical one I have is "The Book Of Beer by Andrew Campbell" 1956. It is more descriptive of the process than anything else and mainly discusses brewing very much in a narrative, descriptive rather than technical way and has no pictures. Only discusses commercial brewing equipment of the time and older methods, which I gather from the book were still fairly common in the UK, no mention of BIAB.

The oldest Home Brewing books I have are by Graham Wheeler and date from 1990 onwards. Although they do mention bruheat, not used (for BIAB) in the way you have in CJJ Berrys' book (at least that's what I think that book is).
Worth noting that the book was revised several times, the version you have is from 1981, I have no idea how far back the process goes and that remains the earliest date I have seen confirmed. Have however heard some passing references to "Pillow Case Brewing" that may have been about what we now call BIAB, that do date to the late 70's to mid 80's.

What I find interesting is that there appears to be something of a void between the early 1980's and 90's by the time we come to the later date BIAB appears to have been forgotten as there simply aren't any (findable) references. Come to the 90's and its all 2-3V until the early single vessels systems like Braumeister came along.

I was selling Baumeister's at the time, and know it was in part the cost of a Braumeister that motivated Pat (and others) to look for a lower cost single vessel option.
Frankly I pretty over it all. You have been trying to prove its a pommy process since at least 2013, I think its widely accepted that there were versions that predated the work Pat did. I for one am more than happy to see him get any credit he is due, at a minimum he reinvented, reintroduced, revitalised a method of of brewing that has helped hundreds or maybe thousands of brewers to get into all grain brewing in an affordable, approachable. manner.
Big ups Pat (your missed)
SE kindly give it up or put a sock in it.
Mark
 
I cant give you the answer you seem to want. From the pictures in the book you have yes it would appear that people were doing BIAB some time ago.
That is the answer I want mark. You previously said above that I was wrong my brewing history was a mish mash and insinuated that I couldn’t have been doing BIAB prior to it being invented here on AHB.
I think that its fair and reasonable to say that Pat re/invented the concept of BIAB (and the name) independently.
By that I mean worked it out for himself (well a few of us here had our ore in the water but it was mainly Pat). Without reference to bruheat or any books that talked about the idea.
Not sure why you have brought Pat or into this again? Why exactly would you think it is fair and reasonable to say Pat or any other AHB member re invented the concept of BIAB when HB authors such as Berry, Dave Line and Graham Wheeler all had books available at the same time that had taught (and continue to teach) the BIAB method along with other methods since way before AHB existed?

If you take a look back at old threads and posts in the early days of AHB the members were relatively inexperienced homebrewers feeling their way and appear to be learning from mostly from American HB sites and John Palmers “How To Brew” which was the brewing Bible on here at the time and did not cover single vessel brewing.

Pat did not work it out for himself it was actually another member that posted the idea then Pat and other AHB members worked out the simple concept of BIAB just as other brewers had prior to Brewheat and HB the books that appeared in the early sixties. I don’t have a copy anymore but believe it was Ken Shales that mentioned in his 60s book that it was amazing how many expert homebrewers suddenly appeared in the UK as soon as the legal requirement to have an excise licence to brew at home was scrapped in 1963.
Now going back to the references, I have been through most of my library and cant find a single reference to BIAB that predates the modern iteration of BIAB. Most of my older books are early copies of technical books (more for novelty than use). The oldest non technical one I have is "The Book Of Beer by Andrew Campbell" 1956. It is more descriptive of the process than anything else and mainly discusses brewing very much in a narrative, descriptive rather than technical way and has no pictures. Only discusses commercial brewing equipment of the time and older methods, which I gather from the book were still fairly common in the UK, no mention of BIAB.
So you continue to argue your point based on the fact you do not own HB books that mention BIAB and refuse to accept that they do exist even though myself and other members have shown they do and posted extracts and pictures of them?
The oldest Home Brewing books I have are by Graham Wheeler and date from 1990 onwards. Although they do mention bruheat, not used (for BIAB) in the way you have in CJJ Berrys' book
Which edition of Wheelers book do you have Mark? I have Graham Wheelers book “Home Brewing” second edition 1993-1997 and that certainly mentions the BIAB method. It starts off explaining the difference between kit, extract, partial and grain brewing. On page five it briefly mentions under the heading “Fully Mashed Beers” That a mash tun or at least a grain bag will be required.

Later in the book under “Mashing Equipment” (page 181 and continuing on p182) it lists 5 methods. The second last one describes BIAB exactly and in detail. However Wheeler calls the method “Mashing using a grain bag and boiler” not BIAB. He was apparently not a fan of the method describing it as messy and difficult but does finish the paragraph with this sentence and exact words:

“Nevertheless, many home brewers use the grain-bag method and almost every “Masher” learned his craft using one.

Perhaps you could check again and confirm if this is missing from your book Mark?
Frankly I pretty over it all. You have been trying to prove its a pommy process since at least 2013, I think its widely accepted that there were versions that predated the work Pat did. I for one am more than happy to see him get any credit he is due, at a minimum he reinvented, reintroduced, revitalised a method of of brewing that has helped hundreds or maybe thousands of brewers to get into all grain brewing in an affordable, approachable. manner.
Big ups Pat (your missed)
SE kindly give it up or put a sock in it.
I have never thought or tried to prove it’s a pommy process. I have always suggested and maintain it is a simple process that was developed independently all over the world by independent brewers looking for a simple and affordable method to brew at home. Also a minimal amount of easy to hide equipment when it was illegal to brew at home without an excise license.

I actually saw a BIAB set up in Ireland first. It belonged to a neighbor and family friend that made beer mead and potcheen. Malt was not easy to get hold of but malting barley was grown by local farmers under contract to Guinness so he and his wife malted their own.

Also should be mentioned that bags were not only used by brewers, they were commonly used in jam making to lift and separate the boiled fruit from pots after being boiled. I recall my grandmother and her friends using JMIAB setups making jam or crab apple jelly.

I am not personally offended Mark but will point out it is a bit rude to tell other members the information they provide is a mish mash and to put a sock in it just because you don’t know or would prefer not to know the facts.

Please try to remember it is OK to have your own opinion but not your own facts.

Cheers Sean
 
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