New keg system - First pour smells bad every time?

[TehCrucible]

Not sure where else to post this? Just finished my collar keezer build a few days ago and kegged two beers. I've noticed that the first pour always has a bad smell. Kind of somewhere between rotten eggs and cardboard. Sulfuric. I just automatically assumed the beer was bad, I'd left it on the yeast for a bit longer than usual. But the strange thing is, pour a second beer immediately after and it smells fine?! What's even more weird is that the ginger beer I kegged at the same time is doing the same.

The taps, lines and fittings are brand new. The kegs were second hand but we're cleaned and sanitised before use. Replaced all the o-rings, poppets etc. Gassed a keg with StarSan and run that through all the lines before tapping. I also bought the gas bottle second hand, and it was full. Could that have anything to do with it? Is it the beer sitting in the lines going off between sessions?

Any ideas would be appreciated. I'm pretty new to all this still.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[Camo6]

What sort of beers were they? I've gotten sulphur/eggy smells from lager yeasts before.
Was the beer finished and how was it carbed?
Did you strip the taps down for a clean before use?

 

[TehCrucible]

Was the beer finished and how was it carbed?

Blonde ale and a ginger beer. Both kits and bits, using kit ale yeasts (MJ and Coopers respectively). Added some Pride of Ringwood and dry enzyme to the blonde ale (trying to re-create megaswill) and a fresh, zested then boiled lemon to the GB. The blonde ale smelt a little funny from the start. I'm suss on those hops, I'd had them in the freezer for a while. Could bad hops give off a similar smell? They smelt OK before I used em.

Was the beer finished and how was it carbed?

Three weeks in FV for both, waiting for the ginger beer to hit final gravity. Both we're definitely done. Force carbed, rocked the keg for a few mins at 30psi before tapping at serving pressure for two days.

Did you strip the taps down for a clean before use?

Taps were brand new (Perlick 650ss), came assembled on the shanks from Cheekypeak. I didn't dissasemble them, but did flush them with StarSan. Maybe I should pull them apart for good measure?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Yob]

Probably just new car smell, rip some IPA through the system to bed it in

Do you have a pluto Gun?

 

[TehCrucible]

Probably just new car smell, rip some IPA through the system to bed it in

Do you have a pluto Gun?

Hahah that's the worst bit! First time kegging beers and neither of them are for me!

And no I don't, but I'm picking up what your putting down. Might try and find one of those picnic taps to test with on Tuesday.

 

[Yob]

Yeah, just to eliminate or isolate where it is.

Good luck

 

[dbaker1202]

Do you store your glasses in the keezer? I do and noticed my glases get a medicinal like smell to them that the beer will knock out after the first pour. I will add that i only started to get that smell after I installed a computer fan to circulate the cool air. Not sure if the smell is coming from the fan or the cooling agent from the freezer.

 

[HBHB]

Did you run a cleaner/sanitiser through the lines and the disconnects before use or shoot a bit of cleaner/sanitiser up the dip tubes of the kegs before use? Or did you use any metabisulfite in the system or in the fermenter at any stage?

 

[TehCrucible]

Do you store your glasses in the keezer?

Nope. Would if I could but there's not much room.

Did you run a cleaner/sanitiser through the lines and the disconnects before use or shoot a bit of cleaner/sanitiser up the dip tubes of the kegs before use? Or did you use any metabisulfite in the system or in the fermenter at any stage?

Yeah I gassed a keg of StarSan and ran it through all the lines before using. Everything the beer touches (except the keg) is new so I didn't bother with a cleaner first, in hindsight this might have been a mistake. And no, I use sodium perc for cleaning.

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

[TehCrucible]

I figure it's gotta be the taps or shanks, as I didn't disassemble and clean them before use. Once I clear the beer from the lines, its fine so I can't see how it'll be the kegs etc. I'm gonna de-pressurize and pull everything apart today. Kicking myself for not using john guest fittings now... :unsure:

 

[Blind Dog]

I like Yobs suggestion of trying a picnic tap. If you don't have one and you're careful, you can use a 'bare' beer disconnect (with line attached but no tap at the end) running the line into your glass, holding it in the glass with one hand and using the other hand to connect and disconnect the beer disconnect. If that makes any sense

 

[desitter]

Going to bump this as I am having the same problem, and believe I have found the issue. The problem appears to be the restrictor inside the Perlick 650SS taps, which I believe is made from a different grade of stainless steel than the rest of the tap, one which is more susceptible to acidic solutions. I noticed a sulfuric smell coming from a tap after running a StarSan solution through it an hour earlier. And have subsequently confirmed that it is indeed only when an acidic solution is ran through the tap that the sulfur smell becomes apparent.

I believe that the relatively small concentration of sulfur found in the stainless steel comprising the restrictor is reacting with the hydrogen in the Phosopric acid found in StarSan. This reaction produces Hydrogen Sulfide, which presents as the rotten egg/sulfur smell emanating from the tap. Disassembly and cleaning of the tap in a PBW solution leaves all parts free from any sulfur smell, except for the resistictor, which has a minor, but noticeable, residual metallic/sulfur smell.

The following post also has more information.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/3ez92p/perlicks_650ss_stainless_flow_control_faucets_say/

I have yet to run beer through the taps, and am unsure at what pH the sulfur smell starts to become apparent. Recommended StarSan concentrations however result in a pH < 3, so it stands to reason that some acidic sour beers, wines, and ciders may also chemically react with the resistrictor in these taps.

 

[goatus]

The problem appears to be the restrictor inside the Perlick 650SS taps

Holy shit! I have had this exact problem since getting my Perlick 650SS and never linked it to the taps. I just throw out the first 100ml or so to get rid of the sulphur. It happens even half way through a keg (if its been a few days since the last pour), so it aint the starsan rinse from before cracking the keg. Wish i didnt get the flow control now, cos i dont really use them anyway.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Anyone written to Perlick? I've heard they're pretty good with responding to and satisfying customer issues.... Maybe more so since the rise of intertap etc.

That said I'd recommend line cleaner over star San.

 

[TehCrucible]

Going to bump this as I am having the same problem, and believe I have found the issue. The problem appears to be the restrictor inside the Perlick 650SS taps, which I believe is made from a different grade of stainless steel than the rest of the tap, one which is more susceptible to acidic solutions. I noticed a sulfuric smell coming from a tap after running a StarSan solution through it an hour earlier. And have subsequently confirmed that it is indeed only when an acidic solution is ran through the tap that the sulfur smell becomes apparent.

Good work mate! I reckon you've got it. The smell went away for me after a bit and I didn't think anything more of it. Since then I've cleaned the lines a few times with just warm water and never noticed the smell. Just a few days ago I was changing a keg that had been sitting for a while so I ran some StarSan through the line for good measure... bang, smell was back. Crazy.

 

[donald_trub]

I've also got the same taps on a brand new setup - all new keg fridge, lines, taps, kegs.

I noticed this too. The first time I set it up I ran a keg of PBW followed by a keg of Starsan through all the taps. A day later I remember pulling the tap handles open with no kegs attached and could smell the rotten egg smell in the air. I've got 2 beers and a soda water on and I really only notice it these days on the soda water. I'm glad I'm not the only one!

 

[desitter]

I have sent an email to Perlick regarding this issue, and will report back once they reply.

 

[Rocker1986]

Interesting. Seems it is the Starsan causing it. I too have 650SS flow control taps but I've not run Starsan through them, I just run a sodium perc solution through them then rinse with near boiling water whenever a keg blows dry.

 

[goatus]

One of those links posted earlier suggest it may be from using the flow control to stop flow before turning the flow off with the tap handle. This will leave a tiny air pocket between where the tap stops the flow and where the flow control does, allowing for the beer inside the tap to go rancid. I must admit I may have done this a few times (throttle it down to a dribble to top off a overly-heady-pint, then turn off the tap) - but im pretty sure I cant have done it enough to account for the many times I have smelt a foul smell in the first 100ml poured.

 

[Rocker1986]

Ah fair enough. That's not something I've done yet - I normally start the pour at a dribble (first pour at least), and gradually increase it as the cold beer cools everything down and it stops foaming, then just shut it off with the handle. If I don't do that, I just have a spare glass to pour the foam into, then pour the proper glass, and drink the spare glass once it settles down. Can't be wasting beer! :chug: