My First Ag (biab) And Also My First Ever Brew!

[kyleg]

hi everyone i'm a new brewer, and have been looking into brewing for about the last 3 months, slowly acquiring my equipment and knowledge. after a bit of research i decided to skip the extract brews and jump straight into AG. i've been looking over this forum a bit over the last few months, but this is my first post. I am getting ready for my very first brew, which is going to be an AG BIAB. I've read through John Palmers "How to Brew", and have watched quite a few tutorials on youtube for BIAB, so i feel fairly confident I can pull it off. I just wanted to run my first brew by everyone and see if there is anything that i'm missing. all help much appreciated!

my equipment:

80L Aluminium StockPot, fitted with mashmaster weldeless thermometer.
BIAB Bag
Hop Sock
Scales
30L Fermenter w/ Airlock and Spigot
Stirring Spoon
Hydrometer
Bottle Brush
Nappisan (For Cleaning)
soon to purchase a sanitizer.. any suggestions?
Bottles
Capper
Caps
Easy Bottler
Bottling Bucket
still need to get hosing and possibly a siphon? (any suggestions)


Heating Method My plan is to do my brew on the gas stovetop. I will probably do a test boil very soon to see how long it takes to reach the boil.

Chill method: My 80L pot is quite large, my plan is to buy a big bucket that the pot will fit in from bunnings and chill with an ice bath.

Fermentation: I have a wine fridge which my fermenter will easily fit in, and it can keep a temperature between 8-24 degrees roughly (adjustable)
would there be any problem with fermenting it in the fridge?

Recipe im planning on using is from John Palmer's book and is an Amber Ale.

I'm not too sure on how much water to start with if i am hoping for 5 gallons (19L i think).

Rough Plan: Raise water temp to 67degrees, mix in the grain slowly avoiding clumps, time mash for 60 minutes, stirring every now and then slowly avoiding aeration, pull grain bag out and let drip til my arms give, put bag into bottling bucket to continue dripping and at that back in during the boil. Raise temp to Boiling and boil for 60 minutes with hop additions. Prepare Ice Bath during boil. When boil is finished add to ice bath, stirring the wort carefully. (should i remove hops before chilling?), once chilled to fermenting temperature i will pour wort from pot through a sanitized strainer into my fermenter, then back and fourth a few times to aerate. then add yeast that i hydrated earlier, pop the lid on and pop it in the fridge to ferment.

when do i take samples for hydrometer readings? before boil and after boil or after fermentation?

bottling day:

mix my priming solution into sanitized bottling bucket carefully, then using gravity and hosing connected to the spigot on my fermenter, drain the beer from fermenter slowly avoiding aeration into bottling bucket, then carefully mix priming solution in by stirring. now from the bottling bucket into the bottles, i can either siphon from bottling bucket with easy bottler attached (don't know what size siphon i'll need for this bottling attachment to fit?) or if i have a spigot on my bottling bucket i could connect hosing again and bottling attachment if it fits? this is where im a bit unsure.

thats it, i think.

if you have read this, thank you. and please help me fill in the gaps and correct mistakes so this brew tastes brilliant because it's been a long time coming and im bloody thirsty!

Kyle

 

[keifer33]

There is alot of questions there so will attempt to answer a few.

As far as sanitiser goes either Starsan or Idophor.

Chilling could be done as per the method you state but if you do a big batch the water will just warm up and not cool it down to pitching temps. Search 'no chill' on the forums as this is a very popular method which basically is draining/siphoning off the hot wort into jerry cans and letting it cool naturally over a day or so.

Getting the liquid out of the pot could be done via a weldless ball valve or a siphon of sorts. If you use a siphon the auto siphon tip and some silicone hose from Gryphon Brewing works a treat - http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/index.php

As you are doing BIAB it would be advisable to join - http://www.biabrewer.info/ . From there they have a handy calculator which will help get your started with mash volumes and boil volumes based on some averages which I have found to be very close.

Also post up your location in your profile and people might be able to recommend brew clubs/demo's

 

[kelbygreen]

wow talk about jumping in the deep end. I would get beersmith or promash and play around with them put all your gear in there and then it will calculate alot you are asking. I wouldnt worry about kettle loss and I would do a 21lt batch not a 19lt batch. so kettle loss set to 0 batch size is 21lts but you will expect prob 2 lts of trub so set the batch size to 23lts. Id set the efficiency to about 67% for your first brew. Well maybe 70% as you doing a full boil I only do 20lt boils. Your better off with a stronger beer then a weaker one you can find your efficiency after the boil you can also roughly guess it before the boil if you know exactly the lts in the pre boiled wort.

The stove top may take ages so best to do a trial. for the cooling remember the pots 100 deg so if your using plastic tub maybe put a tile or something to sit the pot on so it wont melt the plastic.

The rest looks ok but with the temps you want 67 mash temp it will prob be like 78 water temp before grains are added but the brewing software will work that out for you. I wouldnt bother stiring when mashing as you got a thin mash anyway. I would pull the grain bag out heat the wort to 80deg put the bag back in and do a mash out. leave it for 10 mins then drain the bag.

for the removal of the hops yes you can do that but if it has 0 min hops then they will be best left till its cooled you can just throw them straight in the pot and take the sock out. with the strainer I wouldnt as you need to remove the trub. if you can put the ice bath on a bench put the pot in that add whirfloc 10mins in the boil then cool in the bath for 10 mins whirlpool and leave it till its cool. siphon off the clear wort and leave as much trub as you can behind (this has been allowed in the batch size above the 2lts of trub) if you get more or less then adjust the batch size to suit the trub loss.

Edit: if the stove top is no good get a 4 ring burner from a camping store a 3 ring will prob do but if you want to do doubles later and add a mash tun and keep the 80lt just for a kettle then a 4 ring should be enough.

 

[brett mccluskey]

Congrats on going AG first time out :icon_cheers: A couple of suggestions,though i'm sure others will have a few more.When heat your mash water ,make sure it's a few degrees over your desired mash temp,the temp will drop when you add the grains,each system is slightly different,mine drops 4/5 degrees.Get something to sit on top of your 80L pot to sit your bag on and drain.I use a clean oven rack.Buy a long mash paddle and use it to stir/aerate the wort after transfer,much easier than pouring from container to container IMO .Good luck,you seem to have all the equipment,now gain the knowledge,and remember...don't panic,relax,etc :beer: And put a tap on your bottling bucket,much,much easier :chug:

 

[pimpsqueak]

The first thing that strikes me here is the size of your pot for your batch size.
I had an 80L pot that provided a few hiccups...
1: Pretty much impossible to get an effective whirlpool going in wort which is that shallow. I find it much easier in my new 50L pot.
2: fitting the bag to the pot was quite an exercise. It only just had enough give to shoehorn it on and even then, it was tapered (Craftbrewer one) and didn't fill the whole pot.

+1 for a brewing program of some sort. I use Beersmith and Brewmate.
Beersmith has a free trial. Brewmate is free, period.

Some sort of large potato masher/paint plunger type thing to pump the hell out of your grist with will be invaluable.

For your first BIAB you should go for a 90 minute mash and a 90 minute boil, in order to get a a shot at a good efficiency. You might want to have a look through HERE for really good info on your first BIAB.

As for water volumes and strike temps, just plug your batch size (I'd gun for 23L in your 30L fermenter) ingredients etc into Brewmate and it will calculate your volumes and temps for you.

Welcome to BIAB. Wish I had gotten into it earlier too...

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

Hi mate

good work skipping the kits. You're not missing out on much.

I use starsan for a sanitizer. it hasn't let me down yet.

wow 80l pot on the stove. that's awesome. i used to use a 19l pot and thought that was big.

I'd keep things simple. i.e. just bring your strike water up to temp and dump the grain in there and mix around... don't mix it round during the mash. lift bag. drain. bring to boil. add hops. chill? (i used to put my pot in the sink not sure how you'll go with the big pot. I no chill now) then chuck into fermenter and sprinkle yeast on top.

Bottling plan sounds good. Just put the bottling wand into the tap. forget about siphons and hoses and stuff.

Good luck with it and i want to see photos!!!

 

[alizzan]

Mad props to you for going to AG first off. After tasting the difference between K&K/Extract and AG beers, I kind of wish I had gone AG first. I agree with the previous suggestions, however I use Brewmate which I have found to be very handy. Please do a write up after your first batch, and let us know how it goes. Also, I can only assume you've checked out NickJD's threads here and here. If not, most definitely worth a read. They're the main thing that got me into AG BIAB.

 

[ekul]

The only thing you are going to miss out on with your total skipping of kits and extract brewing is the amazement of how much better ag tastes! Props to you!

If i were you i'd investigate a better heating source. I use a 32 jet mongolian gas burner (which is probably too big for an 80L pot) but plenty of blokes use electricity.

The other piece of equipmet i would be looking at is a refractometer. Does the same job as a hydrometer but its so much quicker.

Also, without a proper chiller you should investigate nochill. Its really cheap ( i use a siphon and a 20L cube) and if you want to get a chiller later you can. If you wanted to do it real cheap dodgy bros style you could just tranfer carefully to your fermenter and seal it up and let it cool slowly in there. 2M of silicon tubing from craftbrewer is a great investment. I bought some ages ago and haven't even bothered to fit a tap. A tap would make wort transfer easier but i haven't got around to it yet.

Its pretty hard to stuff up an ag brew, so your first batch is going to be very drinakable. With all the knowledge that is available i'm not sure why more people don't start with ag. Good luck!

 

[kelbygreen]

alllizzan He is doing a full volume BIAB nicks threads are maxi BIAB or high gravity BIAB. he is in fact adding all the mash and sparge water in one hit. So for example you plug into beersmith 23 lts knock out they might say you need to prepare 32lts of water 15lts for the mash and mash out and 8.5 lts for each batch sparge. so you get your grain loss and boil loss out of that with 2 lts to spare to make 21lt brew in fermenter which I find Ideal for a keg.

Yeah brewmate seems alright but only really tried it once and with always using beersmith I was more in tune with that and with both you get slightly different brew day reports, I have tailored my brew day to work with what beersmith says so if I used brewmate Id have to start again not that that would take long but more the fact of reworking stuff out. So really pick a program and just use that.

toper one is right, if you screw up and something goes wrong dont worry you still make beer. Just learn from it and grow from there. My first AG BIAB I use a esky not a pot as I like to mash out. Any way first time, mash in was alright 1 deg off top it up with hot water ( oh yeah when you mash in maybe add 1-2lts less then what you need and have 2lts of boiling and 2lts of cold water on hand, if the temps to high or to low you can quickly add boiling or cold water to make the temp up. If you go shit its 2 deg under and gotto put the kettle on to make up some boiling water you are loosing time. so boil the coffee kettle put 2 lts in something and have it handy you will thank me later ) any way back to the story haha. got right mash temp pushed the foam ontop of the mash put the lid on the esky but with the voile hanging out and left it on the concrete. Come back 30 mins later to get a beer, WTF voile is at the door way of the shed??? lids off the esky the grains in the mash water and a dog cowering in a corner when I start yelling profanity. Ok now I find out dogs like grain so the mongrel has grabbed the voile pulled it out of the esky and then thought he was king shit till he almost tasted his balls when my foot hit his arse lol. Ok all is not lost wash the bag put it in the pot pour the liquid in the pot and strain it with the bag. It was low efficiency and it fermented out to almost 1.000 lol but I made beer and it wasnt to bad so I learnt from there.

I now mash on the bench and fold the voile inside the esky lol

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

+ 1 All the above. Get Brewmate software - its free with BIAB support. Get an ezisphon and 2 m hose from Gryphon Brewing. I have a 50L pot and no tap. I use the siphon to get the hot wort into the cube for no chilling and when you start kegging <_< you can use it for tranfering your fermented beer. Also get a spray bottle for your starsan - spray the crap out of everything .....
BIAB is brilliant ...
Cheers
BBB

 

[dr K]

curiosity really
how much final wort (say 1050) can you get out of an 80 litre biab setup?
K

 

[Housecat]

curiosity really
how much final wort (say 1050) can you get out of an 80 litre biab setup?
K

I BIAB in an 80L keggle and do double batches (46L) no problems and reckon I could squeeze a triple out of it if I topped it off with a bit of water just prior to the boil. Just a matter of handling 15KG + of wet grain!

Back to the OP,

Don't worry too much about pre boil aeration and oxidation, it pretty much won't happen as you're going to boil it anyway.
Aerate it as much as you want when it is time to pitch as the yeasties love the extra O2 and will use it up.

However, when it is time to bottle, don't splash your beer around as this is the time that you will really affect it with oxidation.

HC

edit: spoolink

 

[pimpsqueak]

Well, I had great success with Brewmate during my last BIAB. I hit the figures dead on. So if I just up the numbers... 49L of 1.050 into the fermenter gives me a total mash volume of 78L and a 60 min boil.

 

[dr K]

I BIAB and do double batches (46L) no problems and reckon I could squeeze a triple out of it if I topped it off with a bit of water just prior to the boil. Just a matter of handling 15KG + of wet grain!

Your reply indicates you use use an 80 litre vessel (just curious) and BTW this does relate to OP.
I, of course, do not BIAB but I am familiar with it and as I understand its a sort of full volume brewing technique, that's to say you put all your brewing water both mash and sparge in a single vessel, enclose the grain in a bag, mash, drain rather than sparge then boil.
I understand, unless its changed that the liquor to grain ratio is about 7:1 (which equates BTW with trad mash/sparge process)
You for that double batch in an 80 litre pot add 10kg of grain (with a volume somewhat more than 10 litres ) to 70 litres of sparge/mash liquor....please how do you do it???
K

 

[pimpsqueak]

Your reply indicates you use use an 80 litre vessel (just curious) and BTW this does relate to OP.
I, of course, do not BIAB but I am familiar with it and as I understand its a sort of full volume brewing technique, that's to say you put all your brewing water both mash and sparge in a single vessel, enclose the grain in a bag, mash, drain rather than sparge then boil.
I understand, unless its changed that the liquor to grain ratio is about 7:1 (which equates BTW with trad mash/sparge process)
You for that double batch in an 80 litre pot add 10kg of grain (with a volume somewhat more than 10 litres ) to 70 litres of sparge/mash liquor....please how do you do it???
K

I'm just giving you the figures straight from Brewmate. I used to have an 80L pot but I swapped for a 50L as I only do single batches.

Total Grain: 10.869kg
Water/Grain ratio: 6.23
Strike Water (L): 67.75
Total mash volume: 78.62L
Pre-boil volume: 59.6L

Not that I would even contemplate pulling the bag with 11kg of wet grain in it. Must be around 17-18kg and I brew on the kitchen bench, so the lift starts at chest height :blink: screw that.

You're right about the full volume brewing technique. All your water goes in right from the start.
I know some people try variations on sparging in a separate vessel/bucket, but I hit 76% eff in my last BIAB with only the initial strike water. Why over-complicate a process that was born from simplicity I say

 

[mfeighan]

i got a 60L batch (minus trub etc) biab in a robinox 70L, just topped up after hot break to close to the brim, this one i left in the pot over night to cool down, the trub compacted quite well and i was supprised with how much less i lost due to trub

for temps, i had an old doonah (sp?) and just chucked it over the top never lost more than .5 deg

good luck bro i was in a similar boat only 4 k&k's till i decided to take the plunge to AG and havent turned back

if ur in perth i have one of them SS auto siphon thingos lying around that i dont need anymore

I BIAB in an 80L keggle and do double batches (46L) no problems and reckon I could squeeze a triple out of it if I topped it off with a bit of water just prior to the boil. Just a matter of handling 15KG + of wet grain!

Back to the OP,

Don't worry too much about pre boil aeration and oxidation, it pretty much won't happen as you're going to boil it anyway.
Aerate it as much as you want when it is time to pitch as the yeasties love the extra O2 and will use it up.

However, when it is time to bottle, don't splash your beer around as this is the time that you will really affect it with oxidation.

HC

edit: spoolink

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Your reply indicates you use use an 80 litre vessel (just curious) and BTW this does relate to OP.
I, of course, do not BIAB but I am familiar with it and as I understand its a sort of full volume brewing technique, that's to say you put all your brewing water both mash and sparge in a single vessel, enclose the grain in a bag, mash, drain rather than sparge then boil.
I understand, unless its changed that the liquor to grain ratio is about 7:1 (which equates BTW with trad mash/sparge process)
You for that double batch in an 80 litre pot add 10kg of grain (with a volume somewhat more than 10 litres ) to 70 litres of sparge/mash liquor....please how do you do it???
K

K - the problem here is a paradigm change. You and most other brewers (me included when i brew on my normal system) consider L:G ratio to be a target. So you talk about the L:G ratio of BIAB being about 7, as though thats something that you would try to aim for... but that not how it works. L:G ratio in BIAB is simply a result... it something that you refer to as "it was" if someone asks, but which you basically never think of in an "it will be" type fashion.

You develop your recipes pretty much around your pre-boil volume, I use promash. here's how i would do it.

a double batch of german pilsner (46L into the fermenter)

- I know that to get my 46L of trub free wort I am probably going to need to finish my boil with 50L of wort, so into
pro-mash goes a batch size of 50L.
- I get 75% mash/lauter efficiency, so I will need 10.45kg of pilsner malt to make 50L @ 1.050
- I always boil for 90 mins and will lose 3.3L per hour (lower than ideal for this sized boil I know) so I want to start my boil with 54.95L. Lets call it 55L.
- I lose about 0.6L of liquid to grain absorbtion for every kg of grain I start with, so I will lose 0.6 x 10.45 = 6.25L of liquid to grain and thus need to add that much extra at teh start to get my desired volumes.
- So the amount of water I put in at the start will be my 55L pre-boil volume + 6.25L = 61.25L
- Promash tells me that adding 10.45L of grain to 61.25L of water will give me a total mash volume of 68.23L (each KG of grain adds about .65L to the volume once it is stirred in, the volume occupied by a kg of grist includes air spaces, which become water spaces once it is mixed into a mash)

So - my brew is 10.45kg of Grain + 61.25L of water for a total maximum volume of 68.23L in the pot..... and it just so happens that the L:G turns out to be 5.86.

If I wanted a triple batch.... I would go through the same process and conclude that I either need a bigger pot, or that I would need to use one of the sparge/top-up variations of BIAB to pull it off.

To the OP, well done, good luck.

Be careful of.....

Your Mashmaster themometer - things sticking into BIAB pots are not the best option as they just give you a place for the bag to get caught and tear

The idea of picking up and moving a great big pot of boiling wort from the top of your stove to some big arsed bucket of ice water to cool it down. You slip on a wet spot in the kitchen, you wear 25L+ of boiling sugar water and well.... horrible injuries and maybe death. You might think the risk is small, but the consquences are pretty damn drastic. I personally wouldn't even consider doing it.

TB

 

[katzke]

Only thing I can add is make sure the bag does not rest on the bottom of the kettle. I use a round thing made to cool cookies or cakes. Pull it out just before the boil.

 

[felten]

I'd look at getting a stainless racking cane and a few metres of silicon hose and no-chilling, instead of trying to pour the hopefully chilled wort out of the kettle.

That way you can get a whirlpool going and leave all the trub and crap behind in the kettle, because you end up with a lot of it with BIAB.

You don't have to stir for the full 60-90mins while mashing. After you dough in you can wrap the pot up in something warm and that should keep the temp stable while it does it's thing.

 

[kyleg]

I'd look at getting a stainless racking cane and a few metres of silicon hose and no-chilling, instead of trying to pour the hopefully chilled wort out of the kettle.

That way you can get a whirlpool going and leave all the trub and crap behind in the kettle, because you end up with a lot of it with BIAB.

You don't have to stir for the full 60-90mins while mashing. After you dough in you can wrap the pot up in something warm and that should keep the temp stable while it does it's thing.

could i use the above mentioned 'ezysiphon' for this?