Move To All Grain For Thirty Bucks

[King Brown]

Great thread, simple instructions and very easy to follow for beginners, and makes the process sound as easy and undaunting as it really can be.

Hi Nick JD. You're tips are a bit 'loose'.

A gram per litre can have wildly different results if you're using 7% Cluster or 17% Zeus!!!

tdh

Nope, not stressed. Just laughable what is regarded as acceptable brewing techniques.
The AHB is a font of knowledge but still daggy techniques keep spewing forth and are rewarded and applauded.

tdh

I can see what your saying, but although the advice on yeast goes against what ive read, this is the beginners section of the forum, so advice should be simple and not have to be overly technical. For example the first recipe in Randy Moshers "radical brewing" gives hop type and amount, as well as crystal malt colour and amount ranges, rather than strictly defining what should be used. He then goes to describe what ranges will give what flavours, ibu, srm and og's but leaves the actual amounts up to the person brewing the recipe. This, as the OT stated gives the beginner brewer flexability to make fine tune his or her beers to taste. At the end of the day as long as the brewer has drinkable beer, it doesnt matter, and if they dont, they can research further to refine their techniques. If they want to learn about making starters and liquid yeasts, they can go to that part of the forum and read up on that.

I guess what im trying to say is RDWHAHB :icon_cheers:

 

[markarena]

QUOTE (John Palmer)Re-hydrating Dry Yeast
1. Put 1 cup of warm (95-105F, 35-40C) boiled water into a sanitized jar and stir in the yeast. Cover with Saran Wrap and wait 15 minutes.
2. "Proof" the yeast by adding one teaspoon of extract or sugar that has been boiled in a small amount of water. Allow the sugar solution to cool before adding it to the jar.
3. Cover and place in a warm area out of direct sunlight.
4. After 30 minutes or so the yeast should be visibly churning and/or foaming, and is ready to pitch.

Edit: Palmer's Image of proofed rehydrated yeast from his website.

Great work on the thread! Looks like a good way to start all grain.

Just so you know, in the edition of How To Brew that I own (not in front of me now), John now states that he doesn't recommend that you proof with sugar, as the yeast manufacturers have already taken care of what the yeast needs straight out of the pack. So basically what you quoted, minus the sugar. Makes your process one step lighter!

 

[Bribie G]

I get US-05 from my brew Club for about $3.50 and don't bother culturing it up or stretching it out over several brews/generations. At that price I use a freshie most times and sprinkle. If I'm doing a similar beer as my very next brew I will culture up a litre bottle with some LDME and use that within 24 hours to save the three bucks but that's only occasionally.

Great all round yeast for fake lagers and APAs etc.

Would you be able to post a piccie of your grinder, the brand and how much it was worth?

 

[Nick JD]

I get US-05 from my brew Club for about $3.50 and don't bother culturing it up or stretching it out over several brews/generations. At that price I use a freshie most times and sprinkle. If I'm doing a similar beer as my very next brew I will culture up a litre bottle with some LDME and use that within 24 hours to save the three bucks but that's only occasionally.

Great all round yeast for fake lagers and APAs etc.

Would you be able to post a piccie of your grinder, the brand and how much it was worth?

I'm stingy with yeast - so much so that I have done a record (for me) six brews (12L) on the same trub. At that point I ran out of bottles.

Last month I got some S04 from my LHBS. I got home and looked at the date: 2007, wait ... early 2007. Last thing I've bought from that *******. But I still used it. A bit of sugar showed it was actually very much viable still - must have spent the last three years in a fridge.

The ammount of yeat packets in HBShops sitting behind the counter at 30C makes me very wary of trusting their ability on sprinkling ... especially when I think most bad brews are from that few days when there was no activity and the yeast were struggling to breed up. The LHBS around here are not big on good advice/practices - so much so that it's astounding to hear their advice.

My grinder is a Sunbeam EM0400 - on that link it says $35, but I'm sure it was $20, maybe on special.

 

[extra-cheese]

Just like (almost) everyone else, I just want to say nice work on the guide.

cheers,
brad

 

[mintsauce]

+1 for being inspired to get going AG by this thread - grains on order enough to start on 3 batches - if all goes OK I'll bulk buy

Great thread, got to say even for beginners in AG we all probably know a bit about yeast and have our favorite way to use it:
Personally I put 1 pack into 1 litre boiled/cooled water with 100g light dry malt extract added when boiling then split this to 6 stubbies and keep them in fridge, 2 days before a brew use I do another litre with 100g's, cool and add - when this is going full bang I chuck it into a full brew (23litres) - this makes my $5 yeast last a bit longer, gets brew's going real quick and confident - I've never had an issue this way but i'm sure people will tell me it's less than perfect.

Cheers,

(and wow, look - first time I've been inspired enough to post - normally I'm just a lurker)

 

[DUANNE]

the coffe grinder will handle the task easy.i put 4-5 g of cousin through mine every day for five or six years and its still going strong. id also have to say with the yeast i see tdhs point but hydrate , proof or sprinkle do what you want. if it wasnt for simple guides like this and pistol patches original basic biab guide how many poeple would still be brewing crappy kits or given up brewing because they couldnt brew what they want. if this guide gets 5 more brewers going all grain and sticking to brewing in the long run who cares about semantics of it? my 2c

bh

 

[Sammus]

I get US-05 from my brew Club for about $3.50 and don't bother culturing it up or stretching it out over several brews/generations. At that price I use a freshie most times and sprinkle. If I'm doing a similar beer as my very next brew I will culture up a litre bottle with some LDME and use that within 24 hours to save the three bucks but that's only occasionally.

Great all round yeast for fake lagers and APAs etc.

Would you be able to post a piccie of your grinder, the brand and how much it was worth?

also remember that nick is only doing tiny batches, a whole packet would be waayy overpitching. That part of proofing I understand, if you're taking a spoonful from an open packet it might pay to check it's ok.

 

[Novacastrian]

Thanks for this article mate, i am new to brewing and wanted something simple like this to start me off with AG.

Btw Hello Tony

 

[MarkyMark]

Can you do this 9L brew in the fermenter I normally use for a 23L brew?

Cheers

Mark

 

[fergi]

After about twenty minutes we have what I like to call "Rotorua".

Time to do two things: scrape off that brown crap and add those simcoe hops we saw earlier.

i am trying to get this all clear in my mind, what is the bag doing hanging over the side with the peg in it, did i miss something here or are they the simco hops.

fergi
ps, went out this morning and bought a gas burner and large stainless pot, boils 10 litres cold water in 15 mins, hope thats enough.

 

[marlow_coates]

The bag is acting like a big Tea-Bag.

Allows the hops to be converted in the boiling water, and when done, they can be easily removed by taking the bag out.

If you don't want to make the bag, you can just chuck your hops straight in, and either strain out afterwards, or leave in there to eventually settle on the bottom of your fermenter with the rest of the trub.

Marlow

 

[Nick JD]

The bag is acting like a big Tea-Bag.

Yeah. The simcoe hops are in that bag. The bag is made of the same stuff as the BIABag.

My pot is 15L - I wouldn't want it to be any smaller.

 

[Nick JD]

Can you do this 9L brew in the fermenter I normally use for a 23L brew?

Cheers

Mark

Yes. But if you drink a fair bit, you're better off having a dedicated fermenter for little batches - or your production rates suffer! Also, 9L in a 23L fermenter looks sad.

But there are no ill effects. The space above the beer is filled with CO2 as soon as the yeast start lunch.

 

[RdeVjun]

My grinder is a Sunbeam EM0400 - on that link it says $35, but I'm sure it was $20, maybe on special.

We've got a Rocket Blender and it has only just occurred to me recently that it would make a half- decent grain mill for small batches, so I gave it a spin. No problems, takes seconds and the crush is much better than I'd expected- very few whole grains remaining, less flour than I anticipated and plenty of fragments, so should work fine in a pillowcase. It is probably important to fill it to about half full for each batch, less and it will just turn to flour, more and it might have too many intact whole grains. One great thing about BIAB is that the crush is mostly insignificant, just so long as the grains are not whole.
I'm not sure if I'd put all of my grain through a blender though, I reckon the motors in this sort of domestic appliance would probably snuff it with constant/ extended use. And not only that, but spousie would probably cut my balls off if I burnt it out on 'that stupid beer stuff again...' :blink: . (Doesn't stop her guzzling it when she wants to though, dammit... :angry: )

Also Nick, congratulations and well done on the guide, it is well laid out with pictures of every step and quite easy to follow, we can see from the interest it has generated that has been badly needed. I have been working on a similar guide for a while, it is more text than photos, but as I snoozed, so I loosed... I'll post it in due course, maybe with some extras like a 23L batch with dilution, stepped- mashing, decoction, sparging, partigyle etc for some more advanced techniques, but still based around this simple stockpot/ BIAB kit.

Just on that, the cost and simplicity of just a stockpot, a BIAB bag and a thermometer to get into All- Grain/ All- Mashed are the keys here. Without wanting to stand on any 3-Vers toes here, with this method it shows that transition to AG can be just so simple and doesn't have to cost the earth. While if you do have a go and for some reason you don't like it, then you're not stuck with all this expensive and now largely- useless equipment, about the only thing that doesn't have an alternate use is the bag, but that is no big loss.
I've been BIABing just like this for about nine months now, I actually have much of the kit here (legal stainless firkins etc) to make up a 3-V brewstand but seeing as I'm getting excellent results with the BIAB method, I can't be bothered outfitting it all!
:beer:
Edit: Clarity...

 

[Sammus]

I use this grinder http://www.fivesensescoffee.com.au/shop/co...nt/mazzer-robur

I wish

 

[Nick JD]

I have been working on a similar guide for a while...

It'd be great if you could do a guide on your high gravity full size stove-top batches. A lot of the comments in this thread have been about scaling it to a "full-size" batch.

I really need a 20L pot...

 

[Infinitee]

I just want to second (third? tenth?!) the thanks and congrats on this guide.

Nice and claritous. Just like my beer isn't

Great pictures and I agree with previous comments that the guts & balls of this tutorial would be useful if made into a .pdf for ready distribution.

:icon_cheers:

Makes it seem so easy and you've inspired me to get grainy.

It's hard to find a decently priced 20L pot these days though.

 

[argon]

It's hard to find a decently priced 20L pot these days though.

check out Big W... i think they're still selling 20L ss pots for $20... then you're on your way

 

[RdeVjun]

It'd be great if you could do a guide on your high gravity full size stove-top batches. A lot of the comments in this thread have been about scaling it to a "full-size" batch.

Sure Nick, I may as well do something constructive with what I've got, so will adapt it as such. BjornJ has done a similar walk- though/ pictorial guide, I'll go through all the calcs in more detail though, maybe some more on sparging for those folks seeking peak performance from their BIAB worts.

check out Big W... i think they're still selling 20L ss pots for $20... then you're on your way

Yep argon, they're usually available at big double ewe here at least, although I believe 19 litres is the nominal size. But, as I'm usually diluting, it makes very little difference what the actual pot size is, its the stuff that finds its way into the fermenter that really matters. Around the 20 litre mark works, that much I know! B)

 

[Nick JD]

Sure Nick, I may as well do something constructive with what I've got, so will adapt it as such. BjornJ has done a similar walk- though/ pictorial guide, I'll go through all the calcs in more detail though, maybe some more on sparging for those folks seeking peak performance from their BIAB worts.

Cool - I've inadvertantly copied Bjorn!

I'm about to do another "Roasted BIAB Crust" re-addition (taking the BIAB sugaz and making crystal malt from them) ... and I believe that through doing this (and saving 12c!) that BIAB can literally have a gazillion percent efficiency. Within two brews though. All the remaining sugar in the bag ends up at the bottom if you leave it overnight - throw it back in your next brew ... no other method can beat that effiency. No sugaz survives to make it into the green ant holes in my back yard.

Is anyone else creating an insane green ant colony in their back yard with a grain dump? :unsure:

 

[altone]

ok so at the end if i ferment in a 30lt fermenter, is it still the same process? will there be enough co2 to push out the oxygen?
alswo, insted of a grinder i can use a blender and pulse?
awesome article...this weekend is planned!

I used to use a nut grinder on a bamix for small grain batches so a blender should do fine ...

 

[wynnum1]

Instead of on the stove could you make smaller batches in a deep fryer or slow cooker . I do not think our electric stove would handle the final boil.

 

[RdeVjun]

Instead of on the stove could you make smaller batches in a deep fryer or slow cooker . I do not think our electric stove would handle the final boil.

That's a fair enough question, wynnum1, I guess you can go as small as you have to, but I've found not everything scales down directly. For instance, recently I mashed just half a kilo of grain in a few litres of water in a stockpot (~10litres, so not the biggest) and the heat losses were frightening so I had to add more heat. That was for just a few litres of wort to make some slants, so it didn't really matter much. But what I'd do is mash in the vessel you're going to boil in and usually it will be almost full, particularly if you sparge it.
If you're really wanting to do full stockpot boils though, the camping stove may be the way to get your stockpot heated and then (carefully) transfer it to your electric stove, or else have a couple of pots bringing it up to the boil and then (again, very carefully) transferring it all into one. Getting the wort up to the boil in a reasonable timeframe is the hard part, maintaining it at the boil isn't anywhere near as demanding. Camping stoves use a fair bit of gas though, but it is not all that expensive. The larger chain stores (yep, big double ewe again!) often have a small single hob unit (nominal 9KW?) that comes in a plastic carry case plus a set of four gas canisters for around $20. It might make sense to just get one of those? It should do a couple of batches, and refills were less than $10 for a pack of four, about $7 from memory.

 

[MarkBastard]

I did a 12L strike water 1.5L sparge water mini BIAB partial on the stove the other night. On the two ring wok burner in a 19L Big W pot.

Will never do that again. Just was too hard to keep at a boil. Had to have the lid mostly on.

One thing it did give me an appreciation for though is how much I hate a crappy boil and how much I hate waiting for water to heat up! So when I get an urn I'll be going for the higher performance one for sure.

 

[Nick JD]

I must have some kinda super stove then! But it's just a normal one.

It takes anout ten to fifteen minutes to get hot tap water up to strike temperature.

It takes about 20 minutes to get 11L from 60 degrees (roughly, inc sparge) to the boil. I leave the lid on for this part, and watch carefully for the last 5 minutes - you get to know by the rumbling when it's about to boil up and start churning.

Then I turn the element down a touch so the boil isn't too violent. I've done a few of these with the pot lid on and it just simmering ... no DMS issues.

I leave the lid off primarily to control my SG. If I get 11L of 1.055 I boil less violently. If I get 11L of 1.039, I boil the crap out of it.

Again, I'm doing ales here, and have done lid-on boils without any DMS issues.

 

[RdeVjun]

Mine must be a super stove too, similar performance to Nick's, only mine's gas. Sometimes with gas though, less is more, ie. the hottest and most productive part of the flame is with the tip just lapping the base, certainly not when it envelopes the pot in yellow flames with the valve/reg flat out as per we've seen some mongolians etc. It isn't easy on a stovetop though, maybe try a smaller ring Mark?

Or, maybe southern inland Qld is just the sweet spot? Nup, actually, I doubt it! :lol:

 

[MarkBastard]

Hmm never thought about that. I have the flame on highest, but to be honest with that side pot it still doesn't go anywhere near the sides of the pot.

 

[James_B]

Any advice on where/what plain aussie ale malt to get for the main 2kg's of malt? I can find all the specialty grains on the sponsors above but nothing approaching $60/25kg, no local brew stores with grain at all either ><.

 

[MarkBastard]

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=773

$4/kg,

$3.50/kg if you buy 5kg or more

I think you'd need to be buying a sack in a bulk buy to get it much cheaper.