Mill Motors

[motiondynamics]

Remember, I mainly deal in motors under 120w, anything I bring in for the milling community that is bigger I need to bring in specially, and with the low volume of sales I'd get from the community vs the cost of the motors, its just not viable. I'd consider a pre-paid system so I wasn't lumped with stock I don't generally sell but I'd have to talk to the manufacturer about small quantity ordering for samples because they wouldn't sell them to me cheaply if they knew it was for resale, but selling customers cheap sample motors on the other hand is allowable because they see that loss as promotional which will bring them sales.

The Crompton motor is reasonable quality for the price, the gearbox may be questionable, but its cheap which is why hobbyists tend to flock to these and they do well on eBay.

The brand I deal with (GPG) is much higher quality for both the motor and the gearbox. So it'd be like trying to sell a Porsche for the same price as Volkswagen to gain a share of the market the product is not aimed at.

 

[kirem]

That was what I suspected, you have put time and effort into trying to deliver a superior product that a very small percentage of homebrewers would use, if any.

Given the amount of use a homebrewer's mill would get, even the motor and price of the geared motor on ebay is over most peoples homebrewing budget.

I remember reading on the crankenstein web page, when I purchased my mill, that atleast 1/4hp (~180w) motor was required and I have read elsewhere that significant torque ~5nM is required.

http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/faq.html#q6

:icon_offtopic: Crankenstein used to be a partnership, the partnership fell apart and one of the partners created monster, this is where the FAQ is these days. With respect to motor requirements these mills are similar.

Thanks for your efforts, if you can help us further you certainly will get support from AHB members. I am sure most brewers would rather support someone like you that is prepared to work with us rather than an ebay account.

 

[Sammus]

Oh and FYATHYRIO, politely says "FORGET YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON", but in the general meaning the F doesn't stand for "Forget", though 'll give you a hint... It starts with F and rhymes with Duck.

FIRETRUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON... but that doesn't make any sense at all?!

 

[kirem]

A piece of mesh put in the mill hopper that will prevent foreign objects larger than a grain size dropping onto the rollers. Although it won't prevent rocks and other material that is the same size as a gain getting through it does off some protection. pick a mesh size that won't help bridge or prevent the flow through the hopper - not fool proof but better than nothing.


another thing that can help is some rare eath magnets placed in the hopper to remove anything that will be attracted to a magnet

 

[Batz]

Sorry, you're not making much sense. The slippage has nothing to do with rock (grain is apparently not the only place w find these). Anyway I think you'll find most of my comments have been on the subject at hand, i.e mills and how they are motorised. I'd like to hear about the package that the OP comes up with, there's loads of other threads about where you can discuss your mill related tribulations. FYATHYRIO.

I maybe wrong here as well but I thought this thread was a guy asking what we need in a mill motor. He has offered his knowledge and know how but needs us to describe our requirements and any concerns. I believe the ability for the mill to slip if jammed with a foreign object if pulled through the rollers is a concern.
It may not be a concern of yours but when buying a mill motor and drive equipment I for one would like it aired.

Batz

 

[motiondynamics]

Look, I haven't given up just yet, I've got some DC motors coming in with my next shipment (2nd week July) that I want to test out with the mills.
So its not a complete write-off yet, but I don't want people to be waiting for something that may take a while to sort out.

Sure I can bring over AC motors if people want them and I'm happy to sell them cheaply, its no big deal and it helps the community but they are a fixed speed and expensive to have as variable speed. DC on the other hand is cheap to have a speed control on, cheap(ish) for the motors, but expensive to run from AC.

So each way I look theres advantages and disadvantages, but when you try and limit the cost, you also limit the availability of options and I'd really like to give people more for less.

Oh and by the way, that motor posted earlier with the right angled gearbox on eBay would happily run your monitor through the rollers and wouldn't stop.

 

[razz]

Hi motiondynamics. Is there a practical way to work out the amount of force required to turn a given mill with grain, so we can then determine which type of motor/gear box combo?

 

[pdilley]

Fixed speed AC is fine in my boat. That's what pulleys are for and you get the safety of slip when the mill jams. I don't know why people love transmissions that are costly and way overkill for such a light duty cycle and introduce jamming issues. I am, if memory serves me correct a 1/2 hp inductive start ac motor so no capacitors to go bad or replace. Startng torque is another non issue in my boat and I run stone flour mills, steel nut mills and the huge grain crushing mill off the same motor and I have enough patience to wait the two seconds before pourng grain into a hopper. All of my mills are running at or near 150 rpm from this single ?1480? rpm motor. It's a washing machine motor so easy to source and the side benefit is fully reversible so full milling flexibility. Everything else beyond the simple basics is just Tool Man Taylor dreaming for a perfect motor in a perfect world. The simplest of controllers is a switch as with any AC motor it's the wiring of the starting coil and also having the running coil energized to control the direction of spin. No dedicated power supplies to add cost or break, no dedicated electronc controller circuits to burn out and add cost and not even an AC motor capacitor starter to burn out.

You just couldn't get more simple and reliable than that.

The fact that the ultimate dreamt up motor and transmission costs more or close to one of the most expensive mills is a call to wake up. If a mill is $150 or so are you going to spend close to $400 on the electric motor and transmission for it? Or go for the $25 hand crank or say a drill or if handy just buy pulleys and wire up a motor from a dead washing machine? This is what a retail motor drive setup is up against: The convenience to he hand crank user and make it not a huge amount more than DIY repurposer so that they opt to buy instead of spend the DIY extra time. Then you get the market!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[dicko]

FIRETRUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON... but that doesn't make any sense at all?!

:icon_offtopic: I hope that bloke wouldn't actually do that to a horse. :lol:

Cheers

 

[pbrosnan]

I maybe wrong here as well but I thought this thread was a guy asking what we need in a mill motor. He has offered his knowledge and know how but needs us to describe our requirements and any concerns. I believe the ability for the mill to slip if jammed with a foreign object if pulled through the rollers is a concern.
It may not be a concern of yours but when buying a mill motor and drive equipment I for one would like it aired.

Batz

No problem with that, my attempt at humour was promoted after I read the post about coffee beans.

 

[egolds77]

Hi motiondynamics. Is there a practical way to work out the amount of force required to turn a given mill with grain, so we can then determine which type of motor/gear box combo?

You can work it out by positioning your grain mill's handle in the 12 o'clock position. load you grain hopper with some grain, enough to simulate a full hopper.

Attach a fish weighing scale to the handle of the grain mill. Pull the fish scale and see how much force it take to start turning the handle. Record how much it is and then convert it to Newtons (google it).

The measure the distance from the centre of the grain mill shaft to the centre of the grain mill handle you pulled from with the fish weighing scale. Convert this measurement to metres and there you have it, your torque (starting) required in N.m (Newton x metres)

Hope this helps

 

[razz]

Well done Elton.

 

[pdilley]

Slightly OT but then not so OT: Is this a mill power / transmission solution? It is for this guy!

Too cute not to show, if you don't enjoy the first part of the video (worth watching!) then skip to about 7 minutes in.




Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[gunbrew]

Have been looking for a motor and found one though I do not know if it is suitable.
Have taken a pic of the plate.
Anyone know if it will be any good?
Thanks.

 

[motiondynamics]

Have been looking for a motor and found one though I do not know if it is suitable.
Have taken a pic of the plate.
Anyone know if it will be any good?
Thanks.

For a start it's 3 phase, so you need special power to run it and on top of that its a pretty weak motor, you'd have to gear it way down for it to be suitable but it looks like 1370 RPM output from the motor shaft (hard to read) which means you mill would have to gear it down to get the torque and then the speed would be something like 30-40 rpm.

Probably not viable.

 

[benchick]

Got this from royce cross in adelaide for $400 for motor and gbox, brand new, straight out of china, build quality is spot on, 0.75kw single phase motor, 15 - 1 worm drive gear box, cap start cap run. Final RPM is around 98. Works a treat, no belts or pulleys to muck around with, just slid straight on to the shaft. Got a $50 coupling made up at a machine shop to match up the key ways, job done. This thing will chew 10kgs in around 2 mins easy. maybe a bit pricey for some but im guessing it will be getting it handed down to my kids so its a decent investment. never had a problem with rocks in my grain but im sure i will one day. Probably just crush it anyway and will come out in sparging.

 

[yardy]

Got this from royce cross in adelaide for $400 for motor and gbox, brand new, straight out of china, build quality is spot on, 0.75kw single phase motor, 15 - 1 worm drive gear box, cap start cap run. Final RPM is around 98. Works a treat, no belts or pulleys to muck around with, just slid straight on to the shaft. Got a $50 coupling made up at a machine shop to match up the key ways, job done. This thing will chew 10kgs in around 2 mins easy. maybe a bit pricey for some but im guessing it will be getting it handed down to my kids so its a decent investment. never had a problem with rocks in my grain but im sure i will one day. Probably just crush it anyway and will come out in sparging.

nice hopper and chute chiky, did you fab it ?

Dave

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

nice hopper and chute chiky, did you fab it ?

Dave

+1. Amazing looking hopper!

 

[benchick]

Thanks fellas,I fabbed the frame myself, gota sheet metal place to bend the hopper and chute etc and machine place to make the coupling, had a mate whos a boily tig the hopper and chute, im a sparky so wiring was easy done. if i could tig weld and bend staino woulda done the lot on my own. am happy with the end result though.

 

[yardy]

Thanks fellas,I fabbed the frame myself, gota sheet metal place to bend the hopper and chute etc and machine place to make the coupling, had a mate whos a boily tig the hopper and chute, im a sparky so wiring was easy done. if i could tig weld and bend staino woulda done the lot on my own. am happy with the end result though.

boilies are great blokes, same bloke weld the 2 kegs together as well ?

Dave