Melbourne Herlisil (sanitiser) Bulk Buy

[Wortgames]

Johnno and I tried to get something going on this a few weeks back but it kind of fizzled out - possibly due to doing it within a fairly long existing thread - so I thought I'd have another stab at it in its own thread.

There are a few of us in Melbourne who are keen to get hold of some Herlisil FP. This stuff seems to be about the best no-rinse brewery sanitiser around. It's the stuff the big boys use and by all accounts it appears to be similar to (but better than) the stuff used in BrewShield and Morgan's 'Sanitize' - due to a lack of good information on those two products it is not totally clear how diluted they are and neither of them have phosphoric acid listed as an ingredient either.

What is it

Herlisil FP is a professional brewery sanitiser, and is supplied with excellent info regarding dilution rates for different applications. It is odourless, tasteless, colourless, non-staining and food safe, as well as being a highly effective sanitiser. You can even add it directly into your brewing water to sanitise it.

hydrogen peroxide 50%
complex silver ions <0.09%
phosphoric acid as H2PO4 <1ppm
water to 100%

Plenty more discussion in this thread, and specific details on brewery use in this pdf document.

Recommended dilution rates

Spray and area sanitation: 0.5% - 1% concentration (5-10ml per litre: 1L makes 100-200L solution)
Spray and area disinfection: 4% - 6% concentration (40-60ml per litre: 1L makes 17-25L solution)
Volume (or batch) sanitation: 30-100mg/L (0.3-1ml per 10L: 1L treats 10,000-30,000L brewing water).

How much

We are looking at a cost of $400 for 20 litres, or $20 per litre, as opposed to about $40 per litre if you buy the (probably diluted, no-phosphoric) BrewShield from the homebrew shop in 250ml bottles. The price includes the correct 1L bottles to divide it into.

Don't be a big girl

I'm happy to split it up into 2L batches and deal with 8 other people, but I really don't want to fart around with 1L here and 1L there.

We had a few takers last time and a few big girls that only wanted a litre, so we didn't get anywhere near taking 20L of the stuff, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to splash out $400 and then become a sanitiser retailer in my spare time.

So if you can spare $40 for probably a 2-year supply of the best brewery sanitiser around stick up your hand and we'll get into it. Feel free to arrange your own subdivisions if you must, but I'm looking for 8 other names to take 2L each.

Lukes and RobW / warrenlw63 - are you guys still interested?

 

[therook]

I'm a big girl, so if anyone wants to split, i'll take a litre

rook

 

[lucas]

I'd take a litre if there's anyone in the east willing to split. where are you therook?

 

[Wortgames]

Come on ladies, you know you're not a real brewer until you buy sanitiser 2L at a time...

 

[johnno]

I'll take 2 litres.

cheers
johnno

 

[lucas]

whats the correct dilution for this as a sanatiser? you've said 5-10ml per litre, but johnno said in the other thread 50 ml per 1000 litres, which is 0.5ml per litre (unless my maths is getting rusty).

200ml of iodophor lasts me for 3/4 of a year (at 1:1000). depending on which is the correct the dilution, 1L of this would either last me about the same, or 20x as long.

 

[therook]

lucas,

I work in the CBD if thats any help

Rook

 

[Wortgames]

whats the correct dilution for this as a sanatiser? you've said 5-10ml per litre, but johnno said in the other thread 50 ml per 1000 litres, which is 0.5ml per litre (unless my maths is getting rusty).

bit rusty, 50ml per 1000L would actually be 0.05ml per L, but I think either Johnno or the bloke in the shop got their wires crossed and were talking about the water sanitation rate. I got my figures off the pdf, and it looks about right.

200ml of iodophor lasts me for 3/4 of a year (at 1:1000). depending on which is the correct the dilution, 1L of this would either last me about the same, or 20x as long.

So you use about 200 litres of sanitiser in that time.

1L of Herlisil would make 100-200L of sanitiser, but remember that it is apparently much faster acting and more effective than iodophor and also doesn't stain everything. I suspect you are also making up buckets full of the stuff to go through 200L in 9 months - you probably wouldn't want to do that with Herlisil, just spray or wipe everything down instead. You'd probably only use 1L of solution on brewday.

You can also make it up to a 'disinfectant' concentration if you choose, good for yeast work etc.

 

[Lukes]

Yep,
I'm still in for 2 ltrs.

Lucas
I travel up Burwood Hwy or the Eastern to and from the City every week day.

- Luke

 

[lucas]

yeah, I tend to use about 5L anytime I'm sanitising a fermenter, some of which I then use in a spray bottle, but thinking about it now must be adding up. 5L on a brewday, 5L racking and 5L bottling (though I've just started kegging so that last bit is down). 15L of sanatiser does seem like a lot, perhaps I need to stop being so generous with the stuff. I've been in the mindset "it's cheap, who cares" but really, I could probably cut that back to 1-2L swished around each occasion.

I guess if we get to 19L and nobody else wants in I might get 2L.

 

[Ross]

hydrogen peroxide 50%
complex silver ions <0.09%
phosphoric acid as H2PO4 <1ppm
water to 100%

This looks like a great sanitiser, very similar to the product Hysan that I use, but with some phosphoric acid added. I find your composition here hard to believe though. The product i use has 12% H2O2 & only needs dilution of 1ml/L. Morgans sanitise is 3% as this is the maximum level before it becomes labeled a "5.1 Oxidising Agent" dangerous goods for mailing.

cheers Ross

 

[ArnieW]

I'll be in for 2 litres.

 

[wortgames broke his ID again]

This looks like a great sanitiser, very similar to the product Hysan that I use, but with some phosphoric acid added. I find your composition here hard to believe though. The product i use has 12% H2O2 & only needs dilution of 1ml/L. Morgans sanitise is 3% as this is the maximum level before it becomes labeled a "5.1 Oxidising Agent" dangerous goods for mailing.

cheers Ross

That's interesting - so you are basically using 0.12ml of hydrogen peroxide per L (0.012%, 8300:1), and Herlisil recommends 7.5ml per litre (0.75%, 130:1). That's 63 times more!

Are you sure your figures are correct Ross? That seems like a very tiny quantity of hydrogen peroxide to me.

Morgan's sanitize recommends dilution at a rate of 30ml per litre - if your figure of 3% H2O2 is correct, then that would result in 0.9ml per litre (0.09%, 1100:1)

This is all over the place isn't it?!

 

[Sammus]

if someones willing to send some up to newwy id probably try our 2L, or up to 4 to make it worth your while...

 

[johnno]

Ii just called them again and asked about sanitisation rates.

The chemist said 1ml of this stuff per 1 litre of water. Shelf life is between 6-9 years apparently.

So there you go.

cheers
johnno

 

[Ross]

That's interesting - so you are basically using 0.12ml of hydrogen peroxide per L (0.012%, 8300:1), and Herlisil recommends 7.5ml per litre (0.75%, 130:1). That's 63 times more!

Are you sure your figures are correct Ross? That seems like a very tiny quantity of hydrogen peroxide to me.

Morgan's sanitize recommends dilution at a rate of 30ml per litre - if your figure of 3% H2O2 is correct, then that would result in 0.9ml per litre (0.09%, 1100:1)

This is all over the place isn't it?!

Mixing rates on the Hersil are anywhere from 1ml/L to 10ml/L depending on what you are sanitising, I must admit i tend to use at approx 5ml per litre. You should use stronger if using tap water (I use RO), so i guess it fits inline with Morgans recommendation.
Your solution, I seriously doubt is 50% - It would be pretty dangerous to handle at those concentrations & the mixing rates don't add up.

cheers Ross

 

[Wortgames]

I double-checked the Herlisil site, and it defintiely states H2O2 50%:

Herlisil info - check the MSDS about 3/4 of the way down the page.

When you say Hersil Ross do you mean Hysan?


Johnno - it looks like we're down to one of those 'who do you trust' moments. The chemist at the suppliers is basically advocating using it at 1/5 to 1/10 of the rate that the manufacturer recommends in their documentation.

This is becoming quite surreal. These are wildly different figures flying around.

Personally I would probably prefer to stick to the figures that the manufacturer has put out, which is what I've quoted above. Obviously others are advocating a much weaker solution, which simply means you'll get even more bang for your buck if you're happy to trust them.

 

[Wortgames]

Sammus, I think shipping it to Newcastle would be too hard unfortunately as it is a hazardous good.

So far we've got:

Mr Wortgames
Mr Johnno
Mr ArnieW
Mr Lukes
ms lucas & ms therook

Half way there, not bad for half a day...

 

[Velophile]

Sammus, I think shipping it to Newcastle would be too hard unfortunately as it is a hazardous good.

So far we've got:

Mr Wortgames
Mr Johnno
Mr ArnieW
Mr Lukes
ms lucas & ms therook

Half way there, not bad for half a day...

Ms Velophile for one litre.

 

[Wardhog]

I'd be up for 2 litres. How is the distribution going to work?