Maturing in the Keg

[barabool]

Ok - Question about kegging. Apologies if already answered but looked and wasn't clear.

I have finished a normal 19ltr batch - fermented out and at recipe estimated FG reading.
I transfer into my keg, gas and burp 3 times.

As a bottler, I used to bulk prime and then leave the bottle for approx 2 weeks for 2 reasons -
1st - to carbonate,
2nd - to allow the beer to mature and let the new yeast finish the beer and eat off some nastys.

Question -
Should I mature my beer under gas in fridge at 5C for 2 weeks?

or

Should I leave my keg out at room temp under gas for 2 weeks?

or

Should I place an amount of sugar to activate the suspended yeast to mature the beer for 2 weeks at room temp and carb in the keg?

or

(Insert answer here)


I understand I can force carb my keg and drink straight away but I am wondering if I am missing out on the extra benefits of bottle conditioning besides carbing?

Thanks in advance..


Bara

 

[Rocker1986]

It's probably a bit of personal preference involved in it, but I'd think the easiest way would be to stick it in the fridge on gas at serving pressure and wait a week or two for it to carbonate. Prevents overcarbonation and also because it's cold it helps the yeast and other shit drop out of suspension faster while carbonating at the same time. You'll also find kegs condition quicker than bottles, so the beer will be better, sooner.

That's what I normally do with my kegs although I do have a spare gas line for fast carbing if needed, it is rarely used at the moment though.

 

[mckenry]

I would go with your first suggestion.
You wouldnt do it any good with suggestion 2 unless you had added sugar as per suggestion 3.
Its my opinion (and many others I believe) that beer is best left cold. Its not a bottle / keg conditioning exercise unless youre trying to age a big beer with active yeast and therefore need a warmer temp. Leaving a 'normal' beer warm if it isnt fermenting a secondary sugar addition is going to cause it to go off sooner.
There will be plenty of those that say "I do it all the time, never had a problem" etc. but keeping it cold for an extended time is lagering and we all know thats good (mostly... of course. Always exceptions to the rule)
Also, I'd leave it at 2 or 3°C, instead of 5.

Having said all that, I've had to leave beer in kegs out of fridges and theyve been ok. Just purged them and left them in the coolest spot I could find. Refridgerated as soon as there was space.

 

[Tropico]

Pick one that sounds good and try it. Be prepared to try something different and maybe try another method later. Find what suits you best and you are happy with.

although I probably wouldn't try this: "Should I leave my keg out at room temp under gas for 2 weeks?'

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Agree with all comments above. With the addition that you mentioned in the 3rd option sparked my attention. Ferment Carbing the keg as a big bottle. I've been kegging for over a year and bottled before that. Sometimes I keg and bottle the same brew and compare. It can often be the bottle fermented version is cleaner and crisper than the keg (going by memory home judging). Its the secondary fermentation I am convinced is a key to crisper beer. It cleans up some of the nasties like you mentioned. I have never ferment/carb/conditioned a keg because I cant wait that long basically but I,m inclined to think it should have the same effect as bottles. Its just one large one instead of many small ones. The hard part is putting away the keg for months etc. as I do with small bottles.
$0.02

 

[Rocker1986]

The 'nasties' can be cleaned up in the primary fermenter before packaging the beer as well, which is what I do.

I've only been kegging a few months but definitely noted that with batches big enough to keg and bottle surplus that the kegged portion is noticeably better, cleaner and crisper, than the bottled portion at the same time frame. These kegs are all slow force carbed i.e. set at serving pressure until ready.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Note that fermented carbed keg has a sediment cake just like bottles so you should trim off around 10mm of the outpost tube to get clear beer. Someone I've chatted with made a U bend at the bottom of their out tube. You lose a litre or so of the bottom crap. Or roll/rock it and drink cloudy beer as is done.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

The 'nasties' can be cleaned up in the primary fermenter before packaging the beer as well, which is what I do.

I've only been kegging a few months but definitely noted that with batches big enough to keg and bottle surplus that the kegged portion is noticeably better, cleaner and crisper, than the bottled portion at the same time frame. These kegs are all slow force carbed i.e. set at serving pressure until ready.

Yeah I'm not sure if nasties was the right word. Blending of flavours is more what I was thinking. I loved kegging over bottling for most of my easy drinking beers. So much faster and less work, and better tasting in the short term. Longer term really tell a different story. Its sometime also needed for anything meant to be long term. Even a kegorated force carbed beer can be far more polished after a month or two. But do any last that long?

 

[Topher]

Interesting thread.

With my beers i like to think that it is at it's best straight after a good ferment where the yeast can clean up after themselves ....and then a good cold crash, particularly the hop monsters.
I also like the Instant gratification of a quickly carbed keg.

 

[Tropico]

Interesting thread.

With my beers i like to think that it is at it's best straight after a good ferment where the yeast can clean up after themselves ....and then a good cold crash, particularly the hop monsters.
I also like the Instant gratification of a quickly carbed keg.

Can't go past a good cold crash myself. Goes into the keg quite clear, and given another couple of weeks, lovely bright beer, looks good, tastes great and maybe a little more carbonation the usual. Just the style of beer I like I guess.

 

[Rocker1986]

Agreed, I give it a few days to let the yeast clean up then a good cold crash before kegging. Usually I add isinglass during this period to drop more yeast out, and Polyclar to aid in removing chill haze. I haven't found a need to trim the dip tube yet, probably because there's hardly any yeast in there to begin with; it only takes half a schooner if that to remove it from the bottom surrounding the dip tube, after that it's fine although does end up clearer the longer it lasts as the yeast settles out further.

Unfortunately at the moment being on holidays the kegs aren't lasting that long... h34r: :lol:

 

[barabool]

Thank you for the input but I'm still not sure about the conditioning factor of kegging either with sugar/dext or conditioning under carbonation at or below kegging temp?
I agree placing the beer straight on gas helps carbonation and at a low temp, the yeast dropping out for crisper, clearer beer. I also agree kegging is easier and produces a brighter beer.
And, yes, a yeast cake at the bottom of the keg will need to be cleared or use a different uptake methodology.

But

Will the beer taste better if conditioned - in the keg? And at which temp?
Can conditioning be done with CO2 at 5C or best with extra sugar (to eat the disturbed yeast) at a 18c temp?
How long?

Thanks in advance

Bara

 

[Tropico]

Will the beer taste better if conditioned - in the keg? And at which temp?
Can conditioning be done with CO2 at 5C or best with extra sugar (to eat the disturbed yeast) at a 18c temp?
How long?

I'm just an ignorant (beer) heathen, but there is a multitude of different beer styles that have been bastardised any number of times (by me), that have just a many different methods of conditioning/maturing.

Now there's a can of worms

 

[kennek]

Here fermenting and cold crashing is done in kegs. Then transferred using C02 to secondary kegs to avoid oxygen.

The secondary kegs are aged anywhere from 2 - 8 weeks ish at room temp and replace the emptied ones in keezer then sit another 2 weeks chilling and carbing up at serving pressure.

In my opinion the kegs aged longer do seem to taste better.

 

[Rocker1986]

Will the beer taste better if conditioned - in the keg? And at which temp?
Can conditioning be done with CO2 at 5C or best with extra sugar (to eat the disturbed yeast) at a 18c temp?

I can't comment personally on whether beers in kegs taste different depending on how they're carbonated as I've only ever used the CO2 cylinder to carbonate them. However I think you're mixing things up a bit there... the sugar doesn't eat the yeast - the yeast eats the sugar to produce the CO2.

Conditioning can be done either way. I've yet to build up a big enough stockpile of kegs to be able to leave any of them sitting there at room temp before putting them in the kegerator, but when I do I imagine I'll simply quick carbonate them and leave them be until there is a space in the kegerator for them. Most of the reason for this is to minimize the amount of yeast in the keg. It will certainly be interesting to note whether they are improved over ones that just go straight in after cold crashing.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Its time, and equipment, and space storage preferable an underground cellar, and win tattslotto and build your dream home.

 

[quadbox]

There's always more than one way to achieve the same taste end-result. Really a question of finding a process that works for you then tweaking your recipes for that process isnt it.

Filter, dont filter, just primary for 1 week, just primary for 3 weeks, rack to secondary for a total of 2 or 3 weeks, crash chill for a week or dont, ross-method or wait-for-2-weeks-method, naturally condition or not...

Pick a combination of the above that works for you and makes a good beer, use it always, then you can tweak your recipes to suit your system cant you

Personally I used to basically crash-chill them, filter them, force carb with the ross method and go from there. I'm now not filtering, leaving it to carb for 2 weeks with a bit of gelatin for good measure, and that's it

 

[droid]

snip... I am wondering if I am missing out on the extra benefits of bottle conditioning besides carbing?

Thanks in advance..


Bara

hey bara - imho no, there is no extra benefit of bottle conditioning, if when using sugar to prime - yes it also cleans up the yeast that was in suspension so to speak - if left at cellar temp for a couple of weeks which at the same time will carb up the beer
if kegging ultimately at some point the beer will sit at 2 or 3 degrees (preferably here) and over time that beer will clear due to the low temp
fwiw I have 150ltrs of kegged beer sitting unconnected to co2 but purged initially with co2 and I don't think it's really doing anything other than being in a "holding" situation
I also have lager that has never left the fridge other than to transfer from the 2degree fermenter to 2degree kegs - smooth as

 

[Rocker1986]

fwiw I have 150ltrs of kegged beer sitting unconnected to co2 but purged initially with co2 and I don't think it's really doing anything other than being in a "holding" situation

How does one go about amassing this much kegged beer? :lol:

 

[droid]

How does one go about amassing this much kegged beer? :lol:

buy a 100ltr bourbon barrel and follow that up with a 60ltr conical me ol' matey...and what else? um two 50ltr kegmenters and 10 19ltr kegs, 6x5ltr demijohns and a 25, then there's some plastic

and a 220ltr wine barrel picking up this arvo...

...it's not how it looks OK hehe