Mashmaster Mill Design

[Hubby]

Nice work BrissyBrew!

Have you looked into case hardening of mild steel rollers?

This could be done after the knurl and would substantially increase the life of the roller. With heat treatment, it should work out much cheaper than SS or some of the other options and add extra life.

Whatever the options you end up with, I know my DIY job ain't gonna last forever and I'll need a replacement. At least this way I can buy Australian and help small business at the same time.

Keep these great ideas coming!

 

[Ross]

Brizzy,

Don't worry about weight - There are many cheap freight options & you should be able to deliver, regardless of weight, for approx $9 almost anywhere. If you can't offer steel or S/S as an option, I'd be going the high quality way & doing it in S/S, or comparing the cost against Nickel plate which could be an excellent compromise.

Cheers Ross

 

[Paul H]

I thought brewing with aluminium caused brain damage :huh:

 

[Adamt]

Unless you make a huge scratch in it, and then rinse it with the water youre brewing with, there wont be much dain bramage! h34r:

 

[Chris]

Hi Brissy,

6061 is an excellent material, it is also used for archetectural like windows frames and is even used in the defence industry for things like ASLAVS, although 5083 has better weldability.
6000 series denotes it has silicon in the mix, which is kind of like adding carbon to steel, it increases strength, decreases the coefficient of linear expansion and decreases corrosion.
T-6 denotes the heat treatment, which is specific to the intended application.
But, even with hard anodising it is not as hard or tough as steel.

Cheers

 

[devo]

It would be funny if your poll ended up as a 50/50 split on everything.

 

[crozdog]

Hi Brizzy,

My preferences are:

- fully adjustable gap.
- simple gap adjustment - I don't want to be mucking around with screwdrivers & feeler guages - I'd like to be able to turn a knob 1 or more "detents" & know that for each detent I adjust by 0.X mm
- both rollers geared so the drive roller drives the "free" roller (ie no o-rings to drive the 2nd roller
- a decent length shaft for a drill or motor setup, prefer 3/8" or 1/2"
- shaft should have a flat or keyway for a locking screw on a pulley.
- be ready to use out of the box ie not have to stuff around with fabricating a base or hopper (some assembly is OK)
- whilst stainless is nirvana, I'd be happy with mild steel as long as it had been treated to electroless nickle plating (regular electro nickle plating won't fill the gaps in any knurling evenly, you'd get more coating on the peaks, but almost none in the valleys. As electroless is a chemical process, it coats uneven surfaces evenly.)
- reasonable price. I believe in buying quality tools, but still expect value for money.

Any chance the'd be ready for xmas? It'd make a great stocking stuffer.

beerz

Crozdog

 

[Stagger]

I agree you need both rollers driven, here is a pic of mine i have cut gears so both are driven works a treat.


Silicon is added to aluminium to improve the machining ability, it called free machining aluminium



Stagger

 

[dreamboat]

Stainless steel pipe (sched 10 would probably do, or sched 40 if you want the extra wall thickness) should be worth considering as an option.... light due to the big hole in the middle, strong and shiney as it is stainless. Yes it would take a little more work to get a shaft in etc... but may still result in a saving of a few bucks.

 

[MHD]

Thats a very sexy beast Stagger....

I'm starting to get mill desperate with the troubles with Crankandstein...

 

[TidalPete]

Stainless steel pipe (sched 10 would probably do, or sched 40 if you want the extra wall thickness) should be worth considering as an option.... light due to the big hole in the middle, strong and shiney as it is stainless. Yes it would take a little more work to get a shaft in etc... but may still result in a saving of a few bucks.

If you can get the above in sched 40 (Marine grade316), diamond knurling & manufacturing (And selling the rollers seperately) to Crankenstien specs would encourage a lot more interest as a uniform size is the way to go.
Alternatively, Mild steel sched 40, diamond knurled & then nickel plated is a cheaper option of the above.
Best to have the shafts ss/nickel plated as well with the bushes just plain brass unless ss sealed bearings are available? (Another option?)
For a (Slightly) less impressive mill downgrade to sched 10

Both rollers driven could be an option? Aluminium is way too soft as an alternative.
All the best.

:beer:

 

[tangent]

i just want the bare guts of it, ready to balance a menagerie of buckets and funnels on top of it, by Festivus when Santa's got a hand full of cash ready to invest in brewing equipment and No-Brew alcohol.

 

[BrissyBrew]

- whilst stainless is nirvana, I'd be happy with mild steel as long as it had been treated to electroless nickle plating (regular electro nickle plating won't fill the gaps in any knurling evenly, you'd get more coating on the peaks, but almost none in the valleys. As electroless is a chemical process, it coats uneven surfaces evenly.)

beerz

Crozdog

Hi Crozdog

Yes I was talking about electroless nickle plating, I should have specified just did not want too get too technical.


I would just like to say thank you for everybody who has provided feedback and input. Some design aspects I am not discussing at present, you will need to wait to find out more. But I have taken on board everybody's comments.

My current thoughts are about roller material choice:
-mild steel rollers M1030 or 1045 (maybe electro less nickle plated), cost effective entry level mill.
-I will follow up hollow stainless steel rollers (I have explored this option prevously), not really a cost but a weight reduction factor.

 

[stoutdrinker]

Hi Brizzy,
Great work!

I'm new to AG and whilst my Porkert mill is fine it was bought as a temporary measure until I could afford a "real mill" .Thats where you come in!

I believe steel rollers should be fine & with minor housekeeping ie cleaning, should remain rust free.

My only suggestions are bsed on the premise that generally you get what you pay for so,

-steel rollers sound cost effective
-use the best & most durable bearings you can get
-have an adjustable gap
-go for strength & durability as most brewers wont be looking to replace their mill too often
-ship ready to crush stright from the box

Looking forward to what you come up with,

Stoutdrinker

 

[dreamboat]

i have been thinking more about the pipe option for the rollers, and initially it appeared more difficult as you would have to weld a plate on each end to hold a shaft in place...... I have been thinking about that a little more, and I now see this as a great opportunity to fit meshing gears to turn both rollers together.... ie, instead of just a round plate to suit the OD of the pipe, the plate is larger than the OD, and is laser cut with the gears in it to mesh with the second roller.


Rob

 

[Justin]

One thing that seems to have been overlooked is diameter of the rollers, forgive me if someone did mention it.

If you want a really good mill you want large diameter rollers, and preferable a mild knurl. This in my opinion is far more crucial than whether they are stainless or not, I have mild steel rollers and have not had the slightest issue. I think SS would be overkill and add unnecessary cost IMO, plus it's harder to knurl. But hey?

Obviously it's a trade off between weight, size, need etc but I'd pick 2" as a minimum for diameter. The bigger they are the more nip you have to grab the grain and flatten it rather than relying on the severity of the knurl to grab the grain and pull it in.

I have a Barley Crusher which has 1.25" rollers and a pretty savage knurl, it does an excellent job and I get good efficiency still; but it does tend to pierce the grain and break it into 3-4 chunks (husk included) as opposed to really squashing the grain leaving a good intact husk with a nice powdered endosperm.

A brewing buddy has a nice home made mill that has 4" rollers and they are brilliant. The crush is absolutely superb and looks very much like rolled oats the way the husks remain intact, with a nice floured endosperm-it looks like you have added rice hulls. They are stainless rollers with a very fine knurl (because the SS is so damn hard), however it does have a small issue with feeding at times so could really do with a knurl that is a little more coarse.

Anyway, worth considering. Of course my Barley Crusher works fine and I have no complaints so that says something for how forgiving the crush can be but if you have the option of larger rollers I'd lean more to that side.

 

[BrissyBrew]

One thing that seems to have been overlooked is diameter of the rollers, forgive me if someone did mention it.

Oh yes this is why I have given so much consideration to the materials and weight. I am not however dropping any hints at the moment as to the size.

 

[Kai]

Keen on hearing what the diameter is when the mill does come out, it'll be a definite factor when I have the resources to go mill shopping.

 

[Screwtop]

For those who have never seen a CrankandStein, the rollers are diagonally knurled except for about the last 15mm of each roller which is straight cut. The reason for this is that grain is grabbed by the straight cut knurling and fed through ensuring that the non-driven roller is utilised at a suitable speed for whatever grain is being milled without the need for the added expense of gear driven rollers. Weight is reduced simply, brass bushes are also light and inexpensive to replace. No idea how long brass bushes would last at say one crush per fortnight of approximately 6 minutes duration but sure it's going to be many years. There are so many variables to be taken into consideration Frank. I wish you good luck, have ordered a Crank, can't wait sorry!

 

[Sammus]

The poll says aircraft grade aluminium, tho bris and others talk about 6061, but I thought 7075 was aircraft grade?
I read somewhere that 7075 alu has a higher yeild strength than mild steel, dunno if that comes into as far as blunted knurling etc goes, I'm not 100% on what the term means, I'm pretty sure its right though I was told by a metallurgist...