Mashing in cold

[scooterism]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of making use of my SmartPID and automating my system a little more.

I wish to mashing in cold, leave overnight and then let the timer count down and kick things off with the auto run with SmartPID.

So, I thought I'd run my procedure by you guys and take it from there..

I'm running a 4V HERMS.

So,

1) Fill MT with required volume of water
2) Prime pump and hoses/HEX
3) Dough in + add minerals
4) Set grain bed
5) Select recipe in SmartPID
6) Set timer
7) Wake up to a finished mash
8) Heat sparge water, sparge and carry on.

 

[Coalminer]

I do this often, works well. Long rest at mash-in and a long mash-out, ready to sparge and boil when I wake up

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have thought of doing that, believe Queensland Kev wrote a fair bit on it.

 

[Dan Pratt]

i do it all the time with my Braumeister system.

Mash in between 9 and 10pm

Set the following profile and wake up to do the sparge, boil transfer all in under 2.5hrs

20c - 180mins
52c - 30mins
66c - 60mins
72c - 30mins
76c - 180mins

roughly 9+ hrs

You will get a lower FG always becuase of the ramp phase between 60c to 66c which equates to a 5mins rest at 62c, leading to lower FG, keep that in mind.

 

[scooterism]

I have thought of doing that, believe Queensland Kev wrote a fair bit on it.

Could you possibly link something please?

 

[scooterism]

How does the rests at lower temps and the modified grains we have today affect conversion?

Palmer doesn't seem real clear about this regarding step mashing.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Could you possibly link something please?

Just went onto Google to look for the link and a picture of you came up

Maybe look at what Dan has posted.

 

[scooterism]

Yep, I'm taking in what Dan posted up and about to program the SmartPID.

I have a thirst for knowledge, gotta know stuff now!

Amazing how not drinking during the working week can re-enlighten oneself.

 

[Dan Pratt]

How does the rests at lower temps and the modified grains we have today affect conversion?

Palmer doesn't seem real clear about this regarding step mashing.

Well Id say it doesnt have any negative affect on conversion provided the pH is within best range of 5.2 - 5.8. Infact since i started overnight mashing the efficiency of the mash and overall BH % has increased by close to 10%.

 

[///]

Never left over night but had a programmed multi step mash to deal with beta glucans through the mash filter. Also broke down protein to save on filters. Bunch of literature about it, as least you know the grist will be properly wetted.

 

[scooterism]

Ok, here is the mash schedule. I had to change a few values as some of the parameters in SmartPid have predetermined start temps.

 

[scooterism]

So, how long can 'mash' sit in room temp water?

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

How hot is your room temp water? The warmer it is the faster it will sour.

I've done it over night without issue. Leaving it for a day or so leaves it smelling like arse. So somewhere in the middle i guess.

 

[MHB]

Are those times in Minutes, all 420 minutes? 7 Hours just to mash. 100 years ago brewers talked about the 400 minute brew day, that's from mash in to kettle knockout.
I think you might need to think about that mash regime, here is a link to an article on step mashing, worth a read!
With modern well modified malt there is little benefit to a mashing in temperature lower than 60oC.
Long low temperature rests will almost inevitably cause excess protein degradation and head retention problems in the finished beer.
A Phytase rest is really not used much any more, it only works in very pale beer (enzyme pretty much denatured in Ale and darker malt) and with very soft water (think Pilsen), way cheaper, quicker and more effective to use Acid or Acidified Malt.

I really think there is very little upside to such a long and complex mash regime, there are also a couple of potential downsides to think through.
Mark

 

[scooterism]

I was only trying to follow what was previously posted and utilizing the technology that I have. All times are in minutes and each stage maxes out at 120mins, so hence the extra steps at different temps.

 

[mofox1]

How hot is your room temp water? The warmer it is the faster it will sour.

I've done it over night without issue. Leaving it for a day or so leaves it smelling like arse. So somewhere in the middle i guess.

Thats a good point.

I've taken to mashing in cold. But not yesterday. My brew yesterday I mashed in in the morning, because the "cold" water on Saturday evening came out at ~25, and it wasn't going to drop below 30 outside until the wee hours. So, with concerns about souring the mash, I waited 'til brew day.

Never left over night but had a programmed multi step mash to deal with beta glucans through the mash filter. Also broke down protein to save on filters. Bunch of literature about it, as least you know the grist will be properly wetted.

^This. Not as well read/learned as others (meaning I don't know what I'm not doing right), but the overnight soak means I can turn pumps on full bore without risking a stuck mash.

 

[MHB]

There is very little benefit to mashing for that long, something like 90% of each enzymes action will be complete in the first 20 minutes, 90% of the balance in the next 20 minutes or so... there is also the fact that at peak activity each enzyme will pretty much die (denature) in 90 minutes.
Pretty quickly gets to a diminishing return - a lot of standing around waiting for very little to happen.

Truth is if you mashed in at ambient (say 20oC) and heated to 80oC at a rate of 0.5oC/minute (120 minutes) you will have about everything you are going to get in terms of enzyme activity and conversion.
Also worth checking on whether the timer on your unit shuts down between steps, if you have a rate of rise of 1oC/minute (about as much as you can safely add heat) your mash time goes up another hour (well 57 minutes).
Mark

 

[Coodgee]

I think the idea is he is sleeping, not standing around.

 

[MHB]

The effect is he is likely to be making a beer that has poor head, is over attenuated (thin and dry), oxidised (darker and less stable flavour), quite likely much higher in polyphenols (tannins), has an increased chance of bacterial off flavours...
There are very good reasons mashing is preformed in fairly well understood ways - consequences for deviating too far from the norm.
Just set up a timer and let it run as normal, or at least have a read of the basic function of each step (see link above for a starting point)

Bit of a change me saying too long! - I'm usually the one saying to slow down, for the same reasons. It's brewing science too long too short a mash either way it will change the beer you make, we even know the how and why.

Mark

 

[Coalminer]

What would be the downside of a long mashout 78C-80C?