Lagering In The Primary Fermenter

[steve78]

Gday all,

I was interested in your advice in this lagering point;
I generally with most of my AG ales drop the temp to about 3 degrees Celsius in the primary after fermentation is complete and leave at this temp for about two weeks, then bring to room temp and bottle, and find this clears the beers quite well and have nothing bad to say about this method as it works for me, all in the primary fermenter. I even dryhop in the primary on about day 4 and find this works well indeed.

I'm not too experienced with lagers, and have always racked them off, but with lagers, can you do the same? Instead of racking to a secondary fermenter, can you just drop the temp down to somewhere between 0 and 3 and leave this in primary for 3-4 weeks on the yeast cake after initial fermentation?
I don't see why not but was hoping for someone with experience to advise, as after the diacetyl rest, then just crash chill it down to lagering temps and leave for weeks which should leave the yeast dormant, well technically. And, what about bottling temps, I assume the yeast won't impart much if any flavour when brought back up to room temp before bottling. Any advice?

Does anyone do this? Reason I am asking is that I would like to lager two beers at the one time, same Pilsner style with same yeast just different grain bill to experiment, without having to own heaps of fermenters (I have three atm).

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Nick JD]

For my lagers I do a 7 day finishing thing at FG. Days 1-2 diacetyl rest, days 3-4 crash and gelatin, days 5-6 polyclar. Day 7 bottle and relax.

Like Genesis, except I make lager and not the world 'n shit.

 

[steve78]

For my lagers I do a 7 day finishing thing at FG. Days 1-2 diacetyl rest, days 3-4 crash and gelatin, days 5-6 polyclar. Day 7 bottle and relax.

Like Genesis, except I make lager and not the world 'n shit.

So you bottle condition not cold condition?

 

[manticle]

Gday all,

I was interested in your advice in this lagering point;
I generally with most of my AG ales drop the temp to about 3 degrees Celsius in the primary after fermentation is complete and leave at this temp for about two weeks, then bring to room temp and bottle, and find this clears the beers quite well and have nothing bad to say about this method as it works for me, all in the primary fermenter. I even dryhop in the primary on about day 4 and find this works well indeed.

I'm not too experienced with lagers, and have always racked them off, but with lagers, can you do the same? Instead of racking to a secondary fermenter, can you just drop the temp down to somewhere between 0 and 3 and leave this in primary for 3-4 weeks on the yeast cake after initial fermentation?
I don't see why not but was hoping for someone with experience to advise, as after the diacetyl rest, then just crash chill it down to lagering temps and leave for weeks which should leave the yeast dormant, well technically. And, what about bottling temps, I assume the yeast won't impart much if any flavour when brought back up to room temp before bottling. Any advice?

Does anyone do this? Reason I am asking is that I would like to lager two beers at the one time, same Pilsner style with same yeast just different grain bill to experiment, without having to own heaps of fermenters (I have three atm).

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give.

Cheers,

Steve

I think the main reason for racking a lager is that the traditional lagering period can be months. Leaving a beer on the yeast that long has potential problems (often debated). If you are not leaving it on the cake that long maybe it will be fine. I prefer racking all my beers anyway - I seem to notice less yeast character (as in yeastiness not esters and phenolics).

 

[Spartan 117]

Dead yeast can cause off flavors apparently, good explanationg here http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-3.html

Aaron

 

[steve78]

I think the main reason for racking a lager is that the traditional lagering period can be months. Leaving a beer on the yeast that long has potential problems (often debated). If you are not leaving it on the cake that long maybe it will be fine. I prefer racking all my beers anyway - I seem to notice less yeast character (as in yeastiness not esters and phenolics).

Cheers Manticle. If it was lagering on the cake for a few months, I wouldn't consider it, but if I lager one for a month at such low temps, I may give it a crack and see how it goes, for my own piece of mind if nothing else.....

Thanks for the advice guys.

Steve

 

[Nick JD]

So you bottle condition not cold condition?

Not even that really.

I've gone to town before with lagers, lagering them for ages and doing everything"traditionally" - and IMO it makes the beer taste ever so slightly better, and maybe even that's in my head.

Obviously, YMMV. A bit of gelatine and polyclar and a month in the bottle at room temperature and the lager is wonderful. IMO lagering is a traditional method that's been superceded by modern methods.

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't lager, just that I find it eats up fridge space for very little improvenment in the beer. If I had 5 fridges (or a cellar at -1C) I'd do it for sure.