KegLand Questions and Answers

[KegLand-com-au]

I wasn't complaining I was grateful.

Sorry about that. I interpreted what you said too literally.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Any updates or sneak peaks you can provide of the mini kegerators?

We have some elements in the new design that are patentable but once we lodge this patent we will start to share this more openly. It's definitely a product that we are excited about. We also have some new PCO38 kegs that are 4L in size that will work well with these smaller bench top kegerators.

 

[Bark0s]

We have some elements in the new design that are patentable but once we lodge this patent we will start to share this more openly. It's definitely a product that we are excited about. We also have some new PCO38 kegs that are 4L in size that will work well with these smaller bench top kegerators.

Will these new 4L kegs stand up right in a fridge door? Are they roughly the diameter of a 2L milk bottle?

 

[Budbongo]

The pill bluetooth transmissions should be more frequent than this. If the temp controller doesn't see a BLE transmission for 130 seconds it will default back to the built-in probe. So if you are using the Pill as the BLE device you should keep the transmissions every 20 seconds. I think the default might actually be 5 or 10 seconds which seems to work well.

We specifically have done this so your temp controller is not heating or cooling too much. If you only have transmissions every BLE 15min you can easily overshoot and over heat or over cool the fermenter.

Also BLE is very power efficient so I would not be too concerned about running the unit flat as even with very fast 15second transmission frequency you will still easily have plenty of battery power to get through even long fermentations.

If however you still want to extend your BLE frequency then you need to also change the 130 sec to something longer. For instance if you go into the settings menu you will see a setting called "Sensor Timeout" with a default setting of 130sec. I dont really recommend doing this but if you really want to change your BLE frequency you should also be changing this number at the same time.

OK, have access to the pill now. Have changed the bluetooth transmissions, but the minimum transmission period is .33 / minute which I guess is 20 sec. Appears to be working ok now. (is there any way to change the transmission unit to seconds rather than minutes?)

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Will these new 4L kegs stand up right in a fridge door? Are they roughly the diameter of a 2L milk bottle?

They will probably be too large for the fridge door. The diameter is 155mm so I dont think that will fit many standard fridge doors. You can lie the down on the side though and put onto a standard fridge shelf though.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

OK, have access to the pill now. Have changed the bluetooth transmissions, but the minimum transmission period is .33 / minute which I guess is 20 sec. Appears to be working ok now. (is there any way to change the transmission unit to seconds rather than minutes?)

Yes a few people have made this mistake previously. We have spent quite a bit of time making the Bluetooth as electrically efficient as possible so you can have higher transmission frequency.

If you are going to use the pill as the control sensor (in conjunction with the Temp Controller or Chamber) then it's also important to remember that the temp controller and chamber have a default "sensor timeout" of 130seconds. So if they do not see a bluetooth transmission for 130 seconds then it will default back to the inbuilt probe. For this reason your telemetry frequency should be always less than half of your sensor timeout number.

 

[Budbongo]

RAPT temp controller. I'm having an issue with the differences in the readings of the inbuilt probe and the pill. Have both in the same water container and the inbuilt probe is constantly reading 2deg C cooler than the pill. My thermopen confirms the pill reading within .1deg. This is for temperatures around 16 - 22 deg.
So I thought I would 2 point calibrate the internal probe, I did it with 7 deg & 80 deg water. Now the internal probe shows same temp as pill (& thermopen) at 7 deg & 80 deg, however at 16 deg the internal probe is reading 1.5deg lower than pill & thermopen. Same at 25deg. I recalibrated this another 2 times, still the same 1.5deg difference.
So as I don't ferment above about 25deg, so I did another 2 point calibration at 7 deg and 20 deg. Now internal probe is reading pretty much the same as the pill at 15 & 20 deg, but is reading 1 deg higher than the pill at 25deg.
Firmware up to date on pill and temp controller.
I went into the setup of the temp controller, the NTC beta is set to 4075k; NTC ref temp se to 276.2k; NTC ref resistance set to 335525oh
These are not as per the defaults. Is this the problem? what should these settings be for the internal probe?

 

[KegLand-com-au]

RAPT temp controller. I'm having an issue with the differences in the readings of the inbuilt probe and the pill. Have both in the same water container and the inbuilt probe is constantly reading 2deg C cooler than the pill. My thermopen confirms the pill reading within .1deg. This is for temperatures around 16 - 22 deg.
So I thought I would 2 point calibrate the internal probe, I did it with 7 deg & 80 deg water. Now the internal probe shows same temp as pill (& thermopen) at 7 deg & 80 deg, however at 16 deg the internal probe is reading 1.5deg lower than pill & thermopen. Same at 25deg. I recalibrated this another 2 times, still the same 1.5deg difference.
So as I don't ferment above about 25deg, so I did another 2 point calibration at 7 deg and 20 deg. Now internal probe is reading pretty much the same as the pill at 15 & 20 deg, but is reading 1 deg higher than the pill at 25deg.
Firmware up to date on pill and temp controller.
I went into the setup of the temp controller, the NTC beta is set to 4075k; NTC ref temp se to 276.2k; NTC ref resistance set to 335525oh
These are not as per the defaults. Is this the problem? what should these settings be for the internal probe?

It might be good to explain the electronics in a bit more detail here. The surface mounted digital temp probe that is built into the pill is rarely out so in my experience I would question of the pill requires calibration as I have not seen one that is out yet. I should say that if the pill has been charged or is in AP mode for a very long time these things can create heat and will heat the internal pill temp up so this is important to remember. In normal use this is not an issue as the pill only turns on for a few seconds then goes back to sleep for a long time so doesn't have enough time for heat generated by the processor to heat up the air in the pill housing.

With respect to the RAPT temp controller I think it's a good idea to calibrate these proves in ice water and boiling water. These have a long lead and it's possible for these out of thebox to be out by a couple degree. The calibration process is easy.

Another issue that is worth mentioning is that the pill takes a while sitting in water for the whole pill to become similar temperature to the water it's sitting in. I have found that it can take up to 60min for the pill to get within 0.1C of the water temperature that it's sitting in especially if the battery has been on charge.

So with these factors in mind:
1. Make sure to leave the pill in water for a substantial amount of time so temperature of water and pill is in equilibrium
2. Do the temp controller calibration with ice water and boiling water.
3. I would also do the calibration process with your thermapen ( I am assuming you mean Thermapen not Thermopen right?)

 

[Budbongo]

It might be good to explain the electronics in a bit more detail here. The surface mounted digital temp probe that is built into the pill is rarely out so in my experience I would question of the pill requires calibration as I have not seen one that is out yet. I should say that if the pill has been charged or is in AP mode for a very long time these things can create heat and will heat the internal pill temp up so this is important to remember. In normal use this is not an issue as the pill only turns on for a few seconds then goes back to sleep for a long time so doesn't have enough time for heat generated by the processor to heat up the air in the pill housing.

With respect to the RAPT temp controller I think it's a good idea to calibrate these proves in ice water and boiling water. These have a long lead and it's possible for these out of thebox to be out by a couple degree. The calibration process is easy.

Another issue that is worth mentioning is that the pill takes a while sitting in water for the whole pill to become similar temperature to the water it's sitting in. I have found that it can take up to 60min for the pill to get within 0.1C of the water temperature that it's sitting in especially if the battery has been on charge.

So with these factors in mind:
1. Make sure to leave the pill in water for a substantial amount of time so temperature of water and pill is in equilibrium
2. Do the temp controller calibration with ice water and boiling water.
3. I would also do the calibration process with your thermapen ( I am assuming you mean Thermapen not Thermopen right?)

I don't have access to the temp controller or the pill for a few days, will experiment more when I do.
Please note the pill was in the water (in a fermentation fridge) for about 48 hours (and charged up) before I began the tests.
Will try & calibrate the thermapen when I have access, but as you say the pills are rarely out and in every case the thermapen & the pill register the same tempertaure to within .1 deg, at 7 deg, 16 deg, 20 deg and 80 deg.
I will try recalibrating the internal probe when I have access, but can't imagine that fixing the problem as at low and high temps the pill, thermapen and internal probe are all in agreement.
Are there no standard NTC settings for the internal probe, or do these figures change when the probe is 2 point calibrated?

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I don't have access to the temp controller or the pill for a few days, will experiment more when I do.
Please note the pill was in the water (in a fermentation fridge) for about 48 hours (and charged up) before I began the tests.
Will try & calibrate the thermapen when I have access, but as you say the pills are rarely out and in every case the thermapen & the pill register the same tempertaure to within .1 deg, at 7 deg, 16 deg, 20 deg and 80 deg.
I will try recalibrating the internal probe when I have access, but can't imagine that fixing the problem as at low and high temps the pill, thermapen and internal probe are all in agreement.
Are there no standard NTC settings for the internal probe, or do these figures change when the probe is 2 point calibrated?

When you purchase the new device from us we do have some factory set NTC settings however as soon as you do the calibration process these settings get overwritten. You can do a factory reset of the device though by going into the boot menu.

If you have done one calibration and you feel the figures are still out I would simply do the calibration again. Once the NTC probe has been calibrated you should get accuracy of +/- 0.3.

 

[bobsledboy]

Hey Kegland, what do you reckon about doing some replacement doors for the Grand Deluxe without the glass?

Mine gets a little bit of direct sun, so I have to stick a cover over the doors to not perish the keg post orings and skunk my beer. A solid insulated black door would look pretty slick imo, bonus points for a blackboard finish so I can write on it in chalk.

 

[Uriah55]

The corny keg bladders are working 95% of the time but we are changing some of the design of the lid and bladder which has delayed the process. We have noticed that if customers use too much pressure to fill (more than 25psi) it can rupture the bladder. So we felt that this was not a very robust process. I think we will have this resolved with these next round of changes.

With the cost of CO2 skyrocketing over here in UK is there any update on the bladder system? Any ETA available?

 

[Ballaratguy]

Hey Kegland, what do you reckon about doing some replacement doors for the Grand Deluxe without the glass?

Mine gets a little bit of direct sun, so I have to stick a cover over the doors to not perish the keg post orings and skunk my beer. A solid insulated black door would look pretty slick imo, bonus points for a blackboard finish so I can write on it in chalk.

Paint the glass black and get a chalk pen. Problem solved for about $30

 

[crazy dee]

When you purchase the new device from us we do have some factory set NTC settings however as soon as you do the calibration process these settings get overwritten. You can do a factory reset of the device though by going into the boot menu.

If you have done one calibration and you feel the figures are still out I would simply do the calibration again. Once the NTC probe has been calibrated you should get accuracy of +/- 0.3.

Hey KL,

How critical is it that the calibration is done at extreme ends (ice water & near boiling)?

I also tried a couple times calibrating the probe cool & hot water well within my typical ferments temps & saw similar results as BudBongo. Close but not quite right..

Intend to spend a bit more time on it once latest ferment is done

Cheers

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Hey Kegland, what do you reckon about doing some replacement doors for the Grand Deluxe without the glass?

Mine gets a little bit of direct sun, so I have to stick a cover over the doors to not perish the keg post orings and skunk my beer. A solid insulated black door would look pretty slick imo, bonus points for a blackboard finish so I can write on it in chalk.

We do already have these in stock but they are just not on the website yet. You are after part numbers (KL08953 - Left Solid Door) and (KL08938 - Right Solid Door).

We will take photos and put these up on the website soon so they can be purchased. Alternatively if you email us we can just send you an invoice to make the purchase in the meantime.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

With the cost of CO2 skyrocketing over here in UK is there any update on the bladder system? Any ETA available?

What is the cost of CO2?

We unfortunately still have not finished the bag system as we are having troubles getting the bladder manufacturer to make exactly what we are after. So we have had more delays and definitely this will not be finished this year.

 

[Barleycorn Brewer]

With the cost of CO2 skyrocketing over here in UK is there any update on the bladder system? Any ETA available?

I got this one from Keg Land, only need air to dispense from a picnic or bicycle pump.

 

[Barleycorn Brewer]

I got this one from Keg Land, only need air to dispense from a picnic or bicycle pump.

View attachment 122761

Oops, my bad it was Keg King not Keg Land. Don't know why they have to have similar names!

 

[Uriah55]

What is the cost of CO2?

We unfortunately still have not finished the bag system as we are having troubles getting the bladder manufacturer to make exactly what we are after. So we have had more delays and definitely this will not be finished this year.

The market price of CO2 in U.K. has gone from £200/tonne to £1000/tonne in past month due to shut down of 2 fertiliser plants that produce CO2 as byproduct. (Closure caused by price rise of natural gas due to Comrade Putin!)

 

[crazy dee]

What adapters are needed to upgrade the pump to the 25w on the 65L Gen 4?

I notice the pump head on the smaller one is push on while the 25w has threaded fittings. I assume 1/2bsp to 13mm barb or similar?

Also, does the pre tapped holes for the bigger pump take into account the extra length adapters will add in regard to the standard hosing underneath or will the hoses need to be shortened/replaced once the bigger pump is mounted

Cheers