Thanks for the heads up. We will get that uploaded for you. In the meantime do you have a specific question and we can give you the answers now if you like.
KegLand Questions and Answers
- Thread starter KegLand-com-au
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Thanks for the heads up. We will get that uploaded for you. In the meantime do you have a specific question and we can give you the answers now if you like.
It depends on what you are using it for. The soda bottles are cheap and available but they do not have sufficient barrier properties to block the gas transmission through the plastic. So for very short term storage they would be ok but not for storing beer for more than 1-2 months.
Thanks for the reply, I wouldn't think I'd be using any of the bottles for long term storage (more than 3-4 months).
However, now you've mentioned this I'm interested to understand what the properties are of the soda bottles you've assessed? Assuming that new, sealed lids are used on recycled soda bottles, specifically how much gas is going to penetrate the PET?
I don't do it often, but I have stored sour beers in cheapo soda water bottles for ~3 months before with no noticeable issues; I also won a small home brew comp a few years ago with a hoppy American brown ale that was bottle conditioned in reused soda water bottles (2-3 months from packaging to consumption).
[/QUOTE]Yes I dont thing this would be a good idea. The spunding valves are fairly easy to clean and with a phillips head screw driver takes about 2 minutes to tear down as you can see in this video here:
With that said we have been giving our Blowtie here some punishment and it's frequently had krausen go through it and to our amazement it seems to be operating fine even without a clean. So you never know, you might just get as lucky as us and just keep using it without cleaning it.
If you really want to protect the unit then I think the best thing to do would be to make a small receiver/settling tank so the gas runs into this before going into the blowtie. To make a small tank you could use a PET bottle. In fact it was mentioned in this thread a number of pages ago that we would make a tee piece that will enable you to use two of these caps, then use these yellow KL14830 fitting to connect two of these pieces to a coke bottle:
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/images/PCO1881/Tee Iso 1.JPG
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/images/PCO1881/Tee Front.JPG
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/images/PCO1881/Bottle Front.JPG
So this would be a fairly inexpensive way to make a receiver/settling tank. It will also be able to be used as a very inexpensive small keg too.
@KegLand-com-au do yo have an approximate ETA?
Yeah I do have the seal 11 on my tap and its in good condition, I use a non KL chrome plated adapter and it seals fine. The issue seems to be when the adapter is tightened up as far is it can go it's putting no tension on the adapter onto the back of the tap. I've got no tension at all in other words. It's not that its a bad seal its that there is no pressure/tension for it to form a seal. Hope that makes sense.
In a cheapo soda bottle you will notice that after about 12 months approximately 20% of the carbonation will be lost and a significant amount of oxygen can come into the beverage in that time but soda is not a particularly oxygen sensitive beverage so this is not really a problem. The exact amount of oxygen ingress and CO2 loss can vary quite a bit depending on the pressure, temperature and humidity. If the bottle is cold and dry the gas transmission rate can be halved. Also the size of the soda bottle is an important part of this equation as well. A large 2Liter soda bottle has less surface area to volume ratio so the oxygen ingress will be less when compared with 500ml bottle. So bigger is better in that regard.
Other factors to consider are thickness of the plastic. As the PET gets thicker you have pretty much a linear relationship between thickness and gas transmission rates. So thicker is better.
So it's difficult to give you an exact OTR (oxygen transmission rate) on your particular bottles without knowing exact thickness, stretch ratio of the bottle, grade of PET, temperature and humidity conditions for the storage, but I can say that normal PET is certainly not a good option especially in small bottles, stored at room temp and definitely you will have significant degradation which is why normal PET bottles are not used for beer commercially.
If you include a barrier such as EVOH layer in the PET preform this is quite a bit more complicated to make but this is one of the best ways to reduce the gas transmission rates. You can reduce the gas transmission by 100 times or greater depending on the barrier used. So this can easily turn a PET bottle that would only be suitable for beer storage of 2 months to well over 24months. I am not sure if you remember the "Tap King":
I am pretty sure Visy manufactured these using a EVOH multi-layer preform or nylon additive for this reason. I can assure you they would have used a much cheaper and less complicated preform if they could get away with it.
So getting back to it your sour beer and your American brown ale would certainly have been exposed to some oxygen. If you have a dark beer this is less noticeable. For a stout you can get quite a lot of oxygen in the stout before it's really obvious. The exact amount is hard to say but in a cheap soda bottle it would be significant. For lighter styles of beers like Lager or Pils then this will be much more noticeable and I would not store these in cheap PET at all unless you are really drinking them fast.
@KegLand-com-au The thermowell for the fermzilla was due in today. Didnt get an email and been checking all morning but still out of stock. Now saying not due till 13 oct. Did some come in and the date updated to next delivery but stock level not adjusted?
Yes sorry about that. We decided to delay this one. If you look at the photo on the website:
https://www.kegland.com.au/60cm-thermowell-1-4inch-duotight-bulkhead-included.html
We used to have a plastic 1/4 inch nut that was included in this assembly but we had one break so we are upgrading all the nuts on the duotight fitting to stainless now. Sorry about the wait.
Same.. Is this the same problem with the chiller coil? Im not worried.. Ill grab one today
Will you sell them without the nut? Let us source our own? I cant imagine it takes almost a month to get some stainless nuts in
Engibeer
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[/QUOTE]Yes I dont thing this would be a good idea. The spunding valves are fairly easy to clean and with a phillips head screw driver takes about 2 minutes to tear down as you can see in this video here:
With that said we have been giving our Blowtie here some punishment and it's frequently had krausen go through it and to our amazement it seems to be operating fine even without a clean. So you never know, you might just get as lucky as us and just keep using it without cleaning it.
If you really want to protect the unit then I think the best thing to do would be to make a small receiver/settling tank so the gas runs into this before going into the blowtie. To make a small tank you could use a PET bottle. In fact it was mentioned in this thread a number of pages ago that we would make a tee piece that will enable you to use two of these caps, then use these yellow KL14830 fitting to connect two of these pieces to a coke bottle:
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/images/PCO1881/Tee Iso 1.JPG
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/images/PCO1881/Tee Front.JPG
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/images/PCO1881/Bottle Front.JPG
So this would be a fairly inexpensive way to make a receiver/settling tank. It will also be able to be used as a very inexpensive small keg too.
Definitely getting one of these - this will enable me to have a Kombucha keg external to the fridge and daisy chain it into this receptacle, stored cold.
@KegLand-com-au
Just wondering if the new stainless flexi lines https://www.kegland.com.au/stainless-flexi-arm-80cm-with-1-2inch-hex-nut.html are smooth bore or convoluted like the outside?
Just wondering if the new stainless flexi lines https://www.kegland.com.au/stainless-flexi-arm-80cm-with-1-2inch-hex-nut.html are smooth bore or convoluted like the outside?
Ballaratguy
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Ok back home with photos of my set up
Base of the growler is 110 mm where the base of the fridge shelf is 115mm with the widest part of the growler is about 125mm
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Ballaratguy
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onemorecell
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i just wanna say that's a very cute setup - I love it!
Ballaratguy
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I failed to mention that this is in a kelvinator electrolux all fridge
I also have a fermentation fridge a Westinghouse upside down fridge freezer which the growlers just fit in the door shelf
I did this so I could draft beer inside without taking up too much room in the fridge and also not making any holes in the fridge
I also have a fermentation fridge a Westinghouse upside down fridge freezer which the growlers just fit in the door shelf
I did this so I could draft beer inside without taking up too much room in the fridge and also not making any holes in the fridge
Edward Rowe
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How good is the Kaiju Black IPA!
Ballaratguy
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To be honest I’ve never had it. These empty cans were given to me when I bought a can sealer. They are full of my pirate life home brew
I know you weren't asking me but.. damn good! I love Where Strides the Behemoth even more!
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